Our guest this week is my buddy Marcus Sheridan.

So much gold in this show…

• Communicating with kids
• Integrating work and family life
• Travel strategies
• The secret sauces to building an uber tight bond with each child
• How to put yourself into state to create magic moments
• Choosing not to conform to societal rules
• Stewarding souls
• Family traditions
• The dangers of being known by the world, but not by your family

More About Marcus Sheridan …

As from being and epic father and husband…

He’s a highly sought-after international keynote speaker known for his unique ability to excite, engage and motivate audiences.

In 2017 Forbes named Marcus 1 of 20 “Speakers You Don’t Want to Miss.”

He has been dubbed a “Web Marketing Guru” by the New York Times and featured in Inc.

As founder and president of The Sales Lion, which recently merged with IMPACT in 2018, Marcus has established one of the most successful digital sales and marketing agencies in the country.

Within his speaking company, Marcus Sheridan International, Inc., he gives over 70 global keynotes annually where he inspires audiences in the areas of sales, marketing, leadership, and communication.

Mashable rated his book, “They Ask, You Answer,” the “#1 Marketing Book” to read in 2017. Forbes listed it as one of “11 Marketing Books Every CMO Should Read.”

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Read The Transcript

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[00:00:00]   Marcus Sheridan: Overall theme that I hope somebody would take away if they’re listening to this right now is you do not have to conform to what society says is the norm or the rules cause otherwise, why do you get promptings? Why you get impressions and I think that is arguably our greatest gift as a parent is that we do get promptings and impressions that are specific to our children.

[00:00:23]   Jon Vroman: What’s up gentlemen? I’ve got a great show for you today with my Buddy Marcus Sheridan. If you’re new here to the podcast, welcome to Front Row Dads. I’m your host Jon Vroman and this is a place where men are gathering to have conversations around how to be better husbands and fathers and if you want to be a family man with a business and not a businessmen with a family, then you’re in the right spot. Just a few announcements and then we’ll get right into our show with Marcus and now I will also tell you about Marcus that aside from being a great husband and father, this guy is a badass keynote speaker. Now, what I mean by that is in 2017 Forbes named him one of 20 speakers that you don’t want to miss. He’s been called a Web Marketing Guru by the New York Times, has been featured in Inc Magazine.

[00:01:05]   Jon Vroman: He’s the founder of a company called the Sales Lion. Now, many of you are going to know that because he’s got quite a big presence online. Some of you may not, but you know what’s really cool about Marcus and all of our guests here on the show is while they have some really amazing business accomplishments, it’s not the thing that’s most impressive about them. What I think is the coolest about Marcus is how he views his life as a whole system operating together and as a husband, as a father, as a family man, I spent some time with Marcus one-to-one on a boat a couple of years ago. Thanks to my friends Michael and Amy Port who invited us out and I’ll tell you, we had an amazing conversation and I walked away saying, I need to stay connected to Marcus because he’s one of the good guys. He’s got a level head.

[00:01:49]   Jon Vroman: He’s passionate about life. He’s not afraid to have some unique opinions, and we get into some of that today on the show, but I got to tell you, I really love this guy. Anyway, a little bit more about his bio. Some of you also know that his company sales line just merged with IMPACT in 2018 creating one of the most successful digital sales and marketing agencies in the country. So I go on and on his book, They Ask You Answer was rated a number one marketing book to read in 2017 it just goes on. So I’m not going to do any more about the bio, but I will tell you we have a great conversation today on the podcast talking about lots of different things, not conforming to society’s rules, the how many inside jokes can you have with each child integrating your kids into his work life as he’s on the road quite a bit.

[00:02:37]    Jon Vroman: He talks about some epic adventures that he’s taken with his children, which really inspires me. In fact, as I record this, probably five days from now, I’m going to be on a plane heading to South Dakota with my son Tiger, and by the way, if you didn’t hear by, I should say this because as I’m telling you this story, I realized I probably shared this on the episode that I just released last Thursday. So new style of show wanted to just take you behind the scenes of Front Row Dads, tell you what’s going on, kind of open up the door to my world a little bit and tell you some of the struggles I’m facing, things I’m learning, books I’m reading, articles that I’ve checked out that I think have value and I just wanted to to create some space to share those with you guys. So I was going to release that on Thursday.

[00:03:20]    Jon Vroman: If you didn’t get a chance to hear it, maybe you go back, check it out. It turned out to be a little bit of a longer episode than expected, but I’ll try to shorten those up for you guys. Anyway, the point is I’m taking Tiger to South Dakota next week and it’s going to be our first one to one five day trip. I’ve got a keynote speech there and then uh, some work with another company and he’s going to participate in all that. Tiger is nine and he’s so pumped about it and we’re going to go hike the national parks. We’re going to have a great time. And so this was particularly interesting for me to get into with Marcus today, this idea of traveling with kids. I’m really fascinated by that. So we talk about how to create these incredible moments and why not to try too hard to create these incredible moments with your kids on the road, how to let them emerge naturally.

[00:04:04]    Jon Vroman: Talk about other things like traditions. One of the things he does on Christmas morning, which I think is totally cool and also some thoughts about being known by the world but not by your family and being very careful about that. So guys, it’s going to be a great show. Before we get into the actual interview here, just a quick thanks to everybody who’s taken a minute to write a review on iTunes. It means the world to us. If you haven’t done that and you want to just go to frontrowdads.com/review should open up the review page and a you can just let us know your thoughts. Other things that I want to tell you, we’re going to be opening up membership for guys who want to join Front Row Dads officially become a member, get invites to our in person retreats. We’re going to be opening that up around Father’s Day, so be on the look out for more information about that and if you aren’t connected to our Facebook group, just go to frontrowdads.com/facebook and you can join the conversation there where you can ask the questions you want. You can give resources that you found have been important for you in your life. You can celebrate a victory, something that’s going great for you with these guys and you can give also give recognition. Give props to people who have helped you along the way. So just join that group. I go in the frontrowdads.com/facebook and uh, think that’s it guys. No more announcements. Excited about this show. Let’s get into it with my buddy Marcus Sheridan.

[00:05:19]    Jon Vroman: All right. Front Row Dads. I am with the one and only Marcus Sheridan. What’s up buddy? Welcome to the show.

Marcus Sheridan: Hey. John is so cool to be here two years after we meet in real life. We can finally chat in the live and talk about something that this might be the first time I’ve been invited to talk about something that to me, I’m way more passionate about, then everybody knows me for it. Right? And uh, that’s the, uh, being a dad. So let’s rock and roll.

Jon Vroman: Dude, where do you talk about that? Let’s start there. Where do you find conversation around fatherhood?

Marcus Sheridan: What’s interesting to me is, so for those that don’t know me, traditionally, I talk about what would be considered maybe digital sales and marketing stuff. But I realized a long time ago as a professional speaker, for the most part, the only time that I get a standing ovation is when I find a way to integrate the concept of family until the end of the talk.

[00:06:12]    Marcus Sheridan: Yeah. I still see that as one of the great ties that bind. So one of the very few ties that binds us together, right? And so what I tried to do is, I try to suddenly express my sentiments on stage as I’m talking about, let’s call it business or sales or marketing. I find myself dropping little cues and let me give an example. One of the things that happened to me once is my daughter, she twice, she traveled around the world and me for about six months at a time as I was traveling to different events and amazing experience. And so I will talk about how that let her being an entrepreneur in her business now. She started the business first business, she was 14, and so I look for these opportunities to inject those conversations in front of big audiences because the tonality and the mood of the room changes. Yeah. Right. From this, we’re all in whatever. We’re all in these jackets and blazers and serious to wait. Now there’s an air about the room that’s different and that’s what I want to feel in my talks. I don’t think I’ll be talking about sales and marketing. Certainly in in five to 10 years I’ll be talking a lot more about the personal stuff. Yeah.

[00:07:26]    Jon Vroman: Oh, that’s cool. I’m inspired when I hear guys talk about traveling with their kids, I had a conversation with Joey Coleman about his travel with his kids. Tiger is going with me on a speech. As I record this show, two weeks from now, I’m in Rapid  City, South Dakota. Tiger is coming along with me and we’re turning it into a whole adventure. National Parks, you know, he’s going to be in the audience. He’s going to meet the speakers. It’s going to be his first time really being a part of one of my keynotes. Talk to us a little bit about how that works for you because a lot of the guys listening have a quest to integrate.

[00:08:01]

[00:08:02]    Jon Vroman:  Family and work blend the two together.

[00:08:04]    Marcus Sheridan: Yeah, and so much to this job. Right. And what shocked me at first was when I started this. So my daughter’s today is 18. I’ve got four kids, three girls, one boy, and they basically four year splits from or three year split. Excuse me, from 18 to eight okay. So when my first daughter went out with me, she was getting ready to enter her freshman year of high school and I gave her a proposition, which I think we could really go into this arena. But I believe that we empower our children when we give them the opportunity to work through important decisions on their own. And so I said, so I’ve got this idea, but I don’t know if it’s the right idea. And my idea is that you travel around the world with me over the next six months. That sounds really fun. But this is what it would mean.

[00:08:57]    Marcus Sheridan: It would mean that you don’t go to public school this year for the first semester. It means that you’re going to be on social media and you’re going to see your friends having these parties in these moments, in these events, and you’re not going to be a part of it. It also means that some people might alienate themselves because you’re going to be walking a different path. And it also means that you’re going to have an amazing, exceptional life altering experience. So what you need to do is go back and write the pros and the cons down. You need to ponder it. I want you to tell me what you think you should do. And she came back to me probably a week later because I didn’t want her to tell me in the moment because whatever she told me in the moment didn’t she have to work for it.

[00:09:42]    Marcus Sheridan: I mean, I really wanted her to experience stress. Right? And so she thought it out and thought it out and she said, dad, I want to do it. I want to go. And so she didn’t go to school and she did what was basically virtual schooling for that semester. Now, what’s shocked me so much once we did this, John, was the amount of parents that said, I wish I could do that with my kid, and I kept thinking to myself, what do you mean you wish? Now it’s either you, you want it and you do it or you do not. Now, granted, if you travel for a living, it makes a ton of sense, right? In terms of it would be more of a reason to do it, but the idea that every child should be doing this thing called life the exact same way on the exact same conveyor belt.

[00:10:29]    Marcus Sheridan: I think we probably all have figured out is not the case in the moment we let go of what is societal traditions and you know, we start to believe in the Mark Twain statements of never let your schooling and get in the way of your education. Now all of a sudden we can start to experience the magic. I have to say this one thing. This is really, really important to me. After the fact I realized cause I happened twice and I realize that to this day, my relationship with my daughter is very, very different than it ever would have been. And how do I know that though? And it has to me, it’s become really what is the fundamental litmus test for a parent if they have individual relationships with their child. So there’s a lot of great parents. But then the question is, but do you have a very unique relationship with each individual child?

[00:11:16]    Marcus Sheridan: And this is what, to me the litmus test is, John. And that is how many inside jokes do you have with that child? Because here’s the beauty of inside jokes. They only come from those that are in the inside. They only come when you experience it with the person and nobody else was there. In other words, you’ve got your family inside jokes, but then you’ve got your individual inside jokes with the individual children and see the result. By the time this was done, my daughter and I, we spoke a different language to each other. We had all of these like winky one liners to each other. It drove my wife crazy in a good way. Right. And see if that’s, to me that was the test and I didn’t realize before that moment that that was going to be the big takeaway.

                        Jon Vroman: Yeah. Boy, I love that man.

[00:12:10]    Jon Vroman: That is so great. And there’s so much in that. That’s great. One is this idea of seeing a new possibility for education and not being afraid to have your daughter is take a step out of the public school and how you laid it out. Hey, here’s what you’re going to get, here’s what it’s going to cost you. And then to paint a little bit more of a picture of what happened for that time. How many days were you on the road and how did you handle things when you were home, not on the road. And she has school?

Marcus Sheridan: Yeah, so we were probably on the road at least 50% of the time for 150 days. Something like that. You’re, you’re out on the road a lot. Well, I mean in that particular half of the year was full of like we did a bunch of Europe, we did Africa, we did all over North America, and just so happened that these were the places that I was speaking and it’s just absolutely amazing what it led to and how she quickly, I told her, I remember telling her, John, I said, I said, what the big issue with me doing this with you?

[00:13:18]    Marcus Sheridan: It’s going to totally screw up for life. It’s going to mess you up. And she said, she has, I don’t understand that. And I said, because you’re never going to look at a classroom the same. And of course, as soon as she got back to the classroom, she said, dad, this is the most inefficient thing that I’ve ever seen in my life because all she’s done is hear entrepreneurs and business leaders talk about how to do things better, right? Then she looks around and she’s like, dad is so inefficient and in you might say, well, what happened with her? She ended up, she started a business when she was in high school because of this. All right, that was one byproduct of it, a makeup production company, and she did it without even coming to me. Like all of a sudden she’s like, Hey dad, I made 100 bucks this week selling makeup online that I, I’m making myself.

[00:14:05]    Marcus Sheridan:  I’m like a hundred bucks. Are you serious? Then all of a sudden she had an employee that was working for her and they were producing all these, you know, makeup pallets, but that was when she was 14 and she decides to go with me again like a year later and then the time she gets back. She’s like that. This whole school thing I like to learn. I’m just, I think this is inefficient, and so this is the part that a lot of people would make a lot of people squirm. Okay, John, and I’m happy to say what happened. I said, just get your GED honey. Now for many people, they think the GED is for dummies that can’t get a high school diploma, and she got her GED and she went to university a year early. So by the time she was in university, you know, she was the youngest person in school.

[00:14:51]    Marcus Sheridan: And in between her final summer of being home and going to a university, she did what would be like a, a mission trip of building a house in Tonga. And then she went to school in Hawaii for six months and then, well, first semester. And then she comes to me at the end of the semester and says, I want to keep going to school here to add, but I’d like to take a semester and teach English in Costa Rica. So I said, okay, that sounds great. So currently she’s 18, she’s in Costa Rica. All the girls that are in her group are 20 or 21 years old. And I’m not saying this because she’s my daughter. I mean, she leads the group, she is the leader of the group and it’s all because she’s cleared at different path. And I’ve been completely fine with it. Not following what we define as the norms of today’s society.

[00:15:39]   Jon Vroman: Yeah, yeah. Yes, yes. Marcus. Uh, I celebrate you brother. I just want to, I am man, I absolutely honor you for taking that role and I’m fascinated by this whole thing. I think this is it. I think we are having conversations right now in the group about helping our kids integrate into businesses. You know, interestingly I used to think about even my morning routine, think about like how that was such an important part of teeing up my work day, how much more productive I was for my morning routine. But I would also try to do my morning routine before my kids woke up, like get the morning routine done. And then I thought to myself, I’m doing all this reading and all this meditating and my kids are never seeing it. They’re never so only bug. I’m winning because I’m getting all my personal growth time in.

[00:16:28]   Jon Vroman: And then they show up and I’m like, I want my kids to catch me reading. I want my kids to interrupt me meditating if you will, or to learn that when they see me with an eye mask on and earbuds in and I’m sitting on this like inflatable ball, that that means I’m meditating. So I want to encourage interactions in that space and what I think that like that and other examples like what you’re doing with your work is not how do we separate things, but how do we blend things exactly right. More together.

                        Marcus Sheridan: This concept of always keep your work life with your work life and your home life with your home life. Like very early on I said that might be fine for some people, especially if you’re a traditional nine to five and don’t bring it home for the rest of the evening.

[00:17:12]    Marcus Sheridan: I get that, I get that. But in terms of where more and more I think lifestyles and work, lifestyles are changing, right? And then not so wrote and they’re becoming more as a society, I think we’re becoming more like, I’m not going to look at your hours. I’m just more concerned. Are you getting the job done? Sure. And more people of course, when we’re working remotely, so what does that mean? It means that we have more flexibility to integrate the two together if we are intentional about it. And so I chosen to be in a very intentional about it. And my son now who’s 15 this is his first year traveling with me as well, and he’s different then my daughter and I’m completely okay that he’s different than my daughter and he doesn’t have necessarily the bug in him to go into travel, but it is something that he is enjoying the experience.

[00:18:01]    Marcus Sheridan: Right. And I don’t want him to be the same thing. I don’t necessarily expect him to be somebody that he’s not. But the point being is that when you have these intimate experiences with your kids, you get to know them at a level that you just, for the most part, you can’t. In the normal familial setting doesn’t mean our typical setting in the family is bad at all or it’s inefficient at all. It doesn’t mean that just means that there’s new and different opportunities that come with the one-to-one travel because travel induces discomfort as well as pleasure highs and lows. The highs and the lows are very, very important. One of the things that we talk about the most, for the most part, it’s when we were both falling asleep in the airport because we had only gotten, you know, something like four hours of sleep over the course of two days and like that’s what we laugh about.

[00:18:56]    Marcus Sheridan: Right. That’s what we joke about and my daughter as she’s been in Costa Rica for these last two months has gone through a lot of issues. John, she’s, she’s having a stomach bug a couple of times. They’ve had a lot of issues with, she works with a lot of kids who have needs. It’s been miserable and every single day I have to tell my wife, I remind her literal, I said this discomfort is good. Yeah. Yeah. Cause this is inducing a tremendous amount of growth and so unless as long as she’s alive, then I am pleased because I know what’s happening right now because of the amount of discomfort is this is going to be the greatest growth period of her life. Even more so than certainly than she was with me. Although we had discomfort meant a lot of fun. We had a lot of pleasure and ultimately I’m sure I ended up doing things that now because she’s flying solo, she’s had to clear her own path. Man, that’s a good day.

[00:19:49]    Jon Vroman: Yeah. One of the things we talk about a lot in the front row world is this idea of moment making. And, the concept in as few words as possible that I could describe. It is just all about understanding the whole sequence of our lives is just a matter of these moments that we get to choose how we interact with them and I’m sure on the road you’ve had lots of opportunities, lots of moments to interact. You mentioned like being in the airport, super tired and these moments that you laugh about or where those inside jokes come up. So when you look back on some of the travels with your daughter or now son, what are some of the specific moments or stories or highlights, these meaningful exchanges that stand out for you where either you learned the lesson or they learned a lesson or that set up the inside joke?

[00:20:34]    Marcus Sheridan: I love this question because I need to preface it. Preface it with a warning almost. And that is, that’ll get people listening when you know you’re going to, let’s say. Okay, it sounds cool. I’ve heard John talk about it now. Mark’s talking about Joey Coleman is talking about I’m going to have my kids travel with me more. We build up almost like we might with a date, you know, with when we were in high school and we plan out a date, we have in our mind the magic that is going to happen. And then there’s the reality of what actually happens. And so I found for the most part, you can’t force feed magical moments that we have to put ourselves in a position to have them. Right. And that has to do with not just our physical state, but that’s our mental state. That’s our emotional, there’s a lot of states that are involved with that.

[00:21:30]    Marcus Sheridan: And that’s not just us, but of course that’s our kids or our family member. But we can’t put pressure on ourselves. And we can’t also say, Geez, I had all these, like these, I had all these plans and you know, we’re going to go to this place where I just feel like I can’t tell if it’s resonating with my kid. Are they really getting something out of it? Are they really growing? That’s actually unhealthy to the experience. And so I had to learn that. It took me probably a couple months, John, before I really started to realize that because I was putting a lot of pressure on myself because I wanted magic. Yeah. All right. Today we need at least three inside jokes.

[00:22:09]    Marcus Sheridan: Yeah, that’s exactly right. That’s exactly right. So that’s the first one. Second one is I think also almost always the magic came when I asked just the right question at just the right time. So in other words that you almost see yourself as a facilitator of thoughts that they have observations and they have these feelings and they had these learnings, but it’s not until they verbalize them that is it necessarily going to stick in a really profound way. Right. And so I think sometimes we force conversation, but instead of doing that, if we just have this easy air and just are able to ask questions in a completely safe way, right? That whatever answer they give is going to be without judgment, then I think that opens up the door to the possibilities of some really, really cool moments. Some really cool conversations. And it can be simple things, John.

[00:23:11]    Marcus Sheridan: Like for example, I know there’s been times when, let’s say I was sitting in the airport with my son, okay, I’m sitting there looking around. Of course, 90 plus percent are on their devices of the people. And so I’ll say things like, what do you see right now, man? Like you look around, what do you see? And of course his first answer might be, I mean a bunch of people dad, yeah, but like let’s look at what is everybody doing? What do you really see what’s happening right now? And that could lead to some really great discussions. And so just by taking a moment for what it is and pushing yourself in the right way, right? Without too much force. But inviting this discussion about what is happening in this moment right now. Why do we feel this way? Why aren’t we happy? Why are we sad?

[00:24:00]    Marcus Sheridan: No, why was that so good? I think those are some of the most powerful ones. There was another time when my daughter and I were on our last trip together and I can remember it, man, we’re in the hotel room. It’s a last morning of our last trip that we would go on with each other. And she said, I feel sadness. We were sitting in a hotel room. And I said, why? What do you, where’s that come from? And it led to this beautiful discussion, right? It wasn’t forced, but it was just this moment. You can’t plan that out, especially in an what was probably a dingy hotel room. Right? But it was, it was a really, really powerful moment. It was great.

                        Jon Vroman: You know, a lot of guys wrestle with managing their emotions and I’m simplifying what has been proposed to me through questions and conversations many times over, which is guys wrestling with how to manage their emotions.

[00:24:58]    Jon Vroman: And typically what that means is they lose it on some level. They lose their cool, they don’t respond in the way that they had hoped to. You strike me as such an even keeled guy. And I also would imagine you’re a human being and have lost control of your emotions at least once in your life. But when you think about times that you’ve struggled or wherever you have struggled in life, a guy, a lot of guys struggle with work life balance, things like that when it comes to being a father, being a husband, and if we want to try to keep it on track with this integrating family life or traveling, I’m thinking about some of the areas where you might have fallen down, stumbled, and had to pick yourself back up.

                        Marcus Sheridan: I would say for me, one of the areas where I have stumbled, if you will, that I have a moderately public life, right?

[00:25:44]    Marcus Sheridan: So I have a little bit of a social presence, right? And I get in front of these audiences and believe it or not, I don’t really need that to feel like I’m doing something. But at the same time, my wife pointed something out to me a few years ago and it really struck me, it still stays with me. She said, you know, you go to these events, everybody loves you, they tell you how great you are and how your words have moved them and you write an article and people comment on it and you make a video and they like it. That’s your job and I’m happy for you but I don’t get any of that ever. And it really made me think John, right. Because whether I need it or not problem is I think maybe I needed it before and I’ve just gotten to the point where I don’t necessarily need the audience to say that was great now because I know whether it was good or not and I’m at this point it’s like my own critic.

[00:26:38]    Marcus Sheridan:  But inadvertently what I did, I wasn’t nearly self aware when it came to my wife having that particular, what you might call love tank filled. Right. And I wasn’t giving her the social proof, this social approval that she needs because she has always wanted to be a stay at home mom. But let’s be frank. Kids are not great when it comes to just giving praise. Overwhelming gratitude, right? Especially when it comes to specific feedback. And I would say there’s another one, and this of course applies to employees at plaza kids. I think what’s dangerous is when we tell our kids, you’re so smart, you’re such a good kid. Yeah, you could do anything you want or whatever that is. And all those things might be fundamentally true. But when we say, you know, the way that you thought out that problem and you really approached it and you stuck with, now that was so good.

[00:27:46]    Marcus Sheridan: Yup. And you’re specific about the feedback, right? And so one of the things that I’ve fallen short with over the years, I’ve gotten better. I haven’t been nearly as specific with the feedback to my wife as I needed to be. The last thing I need to say about this one is I believe I’m going to make this as a blanket. It’s not true 100% of the time, but I would say 98% of the time. So for those that are in the 2% that hear, this, just know that I know there’s exceptions when I love a Guy, right? I show love in the form of sarcasm and bros typically do that. That’s what we do. Now did that with my brother growing up and I certainly do that with my closest friends is we do fun jobs for the most part. And that’s how we show up.

[00:28:35]    Marcus Sheridan: I don’t think I realized for 15 years of marriage. I’ve now been married for 20 years, but I didn’t realize probably for the first 14 or 15 years that my wife doesn’t appreciate sarcasm at all. One I owed. Right? And I came to recognize that for the most part, for the most part, again, not 100% of the time, sarcasm doesn’t have a strong place with a healthy husband, wife relationship. Just for the most part it does not. And with our kids, we have to identify very early if it does or if it does not, because reality is my son. Ain’t like most of the Bros. My son actually doesn’t respond as well to sarcasm as many people do, so those I would say are three areas that I’ve fallen short the most that I would like to think that I have improved on dramatically. John.

Jon Vroman: That’s cool. Hey guys, want to take a second to tell you about

[00:29:42]    Jon Vroman: our Front Row Dad’s retreat. If you would value connecting with a brotherhood of likeminded and lighthearted guys who want to deepen their sense of purpose and meaning as fathers and within their families and to talk about and share the best practices and the strategies for ultimate family success, then this event might be for you if you add value being around high performing guys without the big egos. Guys that believe in being family, men with businesses and not businessmen with families. You might enjoy our front row dads retreat twice a year. We’re getting together in person, small groups, cool locations, guest experts and so much more for these events. We’ve now done this multiple times. It has sold out every single time and if you’re excited about it and make sure to check it out at frontrowdads.com where you can apply for the next retreat. Now, hey, one of the things you might be wondering is, does leaving my family make me a better dad or husband? The answer is for many of you, I know you travel a bunch, you do other things and the idea for this one is you have to retreat to advance. You have to take a step back to gain the perspective so that we can go back and crush it within our families. This is the same concept that works in business where you take a moment, you think, you plan, you strategize, you work on your family so that you can be better in your family. If that all sounds good, check it out frontrowdads.com.

[00:31:00]    Jon Vroman: I appreciate you sharing that man that that brings up so many interesting thoughts for me and things that I think parallel what you’ve just shared. Boy, and I think you’ll appreciate this. How who? A mutual friend of ours who also just, I know this show’s coming out a little later, but a little props to how his book, the Miracle Equation Lunch today. Very excited for him. Yeah. One that I’m excited to listen to with my son in the car. We’ve been doing a lot of listening to books slightly together, which is really cool. I remember getting to know how, and this is going back 15 years or so, well maybe longer. And I realize how sarcastic he was and I gave him the label of Sar Castle so good. So I thought you’d appreciate that he’s not so much anymore. Definitely our sarcasm back and it’s like it’s at an epic level.

[00:31:52]    Jon Vroman: Yeah. So, and I get that. I really feel that, I really feel what you’re saying. And the other thing that’s interesting that I’ve never really explored that you just brought up, never explored on the show or in any conversation really is, is many ways the dangers of an integrated life. The dangers of being so integrated with your work and your family and the blending of those. And how, I’ll give you an example of how this shows up for me. So I have a tattoo of the charity logo on my arm. You can see like if you’re watching on video or if you’re on the podcast, like I’ve got the, the house is like people send me artwork with the Front Row Guy and like I have a bobble head right there that somebody sent me with the Front Row Guy. I’ve got Front Row hats, I’ve got this tattoo, I’ve got Front Row clothing and stickers and everything. And I mean remember I was standing the door one time

[00:32:40]    Jon Vroman: and I was wearing a short sleeve tee shirt that must have had like a Front Row t shirt. I had a Front Row hat on. I’ve got this Front Row Tattoo on my arm and my wife just loses it. She’s like, nope, that’s not working right. It doesn’t work. And it was almost this like moment where she acts, she kinda lost it in that moment because she’s surrounded by Front Row. Right? Like it’s almost this like you think like the first lady of the Front Row foundation a would be the most excited about the charity. But in many ways this charity has taken so much away from her, late nights and weekends where I was pulled away or travel. And so the integrated part of it is I learned that I had to be careful with that. So when I go on dates, like rule is no Front Row hat, no Front Row t-shirt, you know, just try to not bring that into the equation.

[00:33:29]    Jon Vroman: So there’s moments of like when we integrate how, just like what you were describing, you know, if, if I’m too expressive about all the people that came up to me after the speech and I have to know where that’s not productive in a conversation with my wife.

Marcus Sheridan: That’s a good point because the reality is if, when your spouse really loves you and all you’re doing is talking about stories where other people have your time and energy. Yeah. Because that’s really what we’re discussing is like, they have your time and energy and here she really wants your time, your energy, and so it can for everybody, this is different. It’s a really, really valid point, which is why hopefully in a perfect world, when I come home, my wife, my goal has always been, well ever since I heard somebody say once personally I really respected is that she says, okay, here comes the infantry.

[00:34:18]    Marcus Sheridan: That means that I’m not going to walk in with any needs because I have already been fed. But instead my immediate goal is to how can I make her life easier? Right now, sometimes it’s verbal, sometimes that is a physical act. Whatever that thing is, is the mindset. Okay, here comes the infantry, or uh, oh, here comes another dependent, right? If I walk in and she says, yeah, take your shoes off, honey. You know, I have failed. I have failed her. So that is the goal. And the fact is too, I think as you do that everybody just elevates. Everything gets better.

                        Jon Vroman: Boy, you’ve got it. I’m so glad you brought this up. Marcus. This is so key because you can’t roll into your house with nothing left in your tank or from the basement or the inside office of your house. You can’t roll in with nothing in the tank.

[00:35:19]    Marcus Sheridan: Well, and to that point, Jon, is we are used to not having anything in the tank but still going up on stage or getting in front of that business group and slaying it. Why? Because that’s what we do. Yeah, yeah. That’s what we do. Right. And we don’t sit there and we don’t tell our whoever with, we don’t tell them that we’re sick. We don’t tell them that we only have three hours of sleep. We don’t tell them these things because it really doesn’t matter in the grand scheme of the experience that they have. And it actually only takes away. Totally. And so in this case, sure, I’m probably gonna have some moments when I tell my wife, you wouldn’t believe what happened. But it has to be a situation where everything is, here is my energy and let’s do what whatever you need right now with it.

[00:36:09]    Marcus Sheridan: Yeah, let’s do that thing.

Jon Vroman: How do you manage that energy for you personally? What, what is your routine, your rhythm to either get yourself transitioned from the, you know, the mindset that you have at work and maybe it’s not different. Maybe it’s the same one, but I knew a lot of guys have transitional events. I have the gym, you know that transitions from work to home, which is really good for me. What do you do or is there something you do?

                        Marcus Sheridan: Well, my transition is almost always an hour and 35 minute ride coming from the airport. Right. And I have a choice during that time period to actually think about how am I going to act when I get home or not. For me it’s actually, it’s not anything more specific than this. When I actually think about what my portmant, my behavior is going to be like when I walk into the doors I’m generally great but if I’m not self aware, if I’m not thinking about it, if I’ve just been listening to sports talk radio and not probably something let’s say on personal development for the last hour and 35 minutes, then there’s a very good chance I’m not going to have nearly as fruitful of probably what is an evening with my wife.

[00:37:21]    Marcus Sheridan:  There’s been many times when I’ll get off of a red eye in. The last thing I’m going to do when I get off of a red eye is taking a nap when I get home cause that ain’t fair so I will at least keep mine. I was always got an hour, 35 minutes drive from the airport too, but I would at least give an hour, 90 minutes of full energy before I say, okay, now it’s time to get naps that I need. Yeah. At least that’s the goal. I say this, the problem is we can hear this stuff, Jon, and then we all start to beat each other up, right? If we’re listening because we’re like, well, gosh, this guy or these people do, they screw up? Of course the answer’s yes and we all have a really bad moment, but hopefully we have less over time and that’s, I fall in the category of less over time.

[00:38:09]    Marcus Sheridan: I do feel like there’s progress, which ultimately that’s the goal. It’s progress over perfection because we’re certainly not going to reach a ladder 100%.

Jon Vroman: Yeah. Boy, these are great reminders for some, these are great new concepts for others. This has been really, really an important conversation. Marcus, I’m so grateful for it. I want to ask you a couple of other questions, but before I switch gears, anything else you want to say to anybody listening on this topic of, you know, this work, home life integration of your marriage and how that is affected by your work? I know we didn’t get into traveling with your wife at all or traveling as a family. There’s anything else that we didn’t want it.

Marcus Sheridan: There’s just a couple of, I would say small ones to this overall theme that I hope somebody would take away if they’re listening to this right now is I do not have to conform to what society says is the norm or the rules because otherwise why do you get prompting?

[00:39:06]    Marcus Sheridan: You get impressions and I think that is arguably our greatest gifts as a parent is that we do get promptings and impressions that are specific to our children.

Jon Vroman: Describe that a little more defined that, what does that mean to you?

Marcus Sheridan: Well, yeah, so I see parenting as we were basically given stewardship. We were called to be the shepherd or the steward of this soul, if you will. With that great power comes great responsibility and with that power and responsibility comes also a gift and that is specific impressions that can’t always be explained. They can only be felt and then understood once acted upon or unfortunately sometimes not acted upon. Right. And I think one of the great tasks that we have as mothers and fathers is finding out what those gifts are. And then again, like I said, taking action on those. So for example, my wife has a gift of identifying when the kids are sick and how to help fix that as much more keen to that than I am.

[00:40:15]    Marcus Sheridan: It doesn’t mean that I ignore it, but it’s one of her gifts. And so we’ve tried to magnify that right at the same time, I have a set of gifts, she clearly knows that one of my gifts is I have a specific way, almost a magical way of teaching the kids. So one is that is rooted in self discovery. And so really that is only, that only occurs. My belief is that it occurs not by trying to tell them the answer and not by trying to look smart. We’re not by trying to look like the authority, but obsessing over their ability to make a magical discovery in the moment simply because you led them down the right path by holding their hand and asking a set of questions or a question that gave them that moment where they want to say, you know what dad?

[00:41:06]    Marcus Sheridan: I think I need to do. And that means the light bulb has come down when they say, do you know what, that, you know, you’ve done something great as a teacher and as their steward in that moment. And so there’s all these impressions that we can get in. The more we listened to them, the more promptings and impressions we get. The more we disregard them, the less we will receive them in the future. I believe that to be the case. And that’s why I’m not going to get an impression for your kid, Jon, that’s not going to happen because this is not my stewardship. But clearly you have for them. And I think that’s not a gift we should ever disregard. In fact, we should, we should look to grow it throughout our lives.

Jon Vroman: You know, one of the things that, uh, I’m really appreciative of that for this conversation is this curiosity theme that’s popped up and this, uh, this interest in helping somebody to make a magical discovery, right?

[00:42:00]    Jon Vroman: That idea when you talk to you going back even to, you can’t force feed the magical moment, but you can put yourself into a situation or a state, you can invited it. Right? And that idea of allowing even allowing your daughter to make her own decisions, there’s a lot of freedom. You know, it’s interesting is that in your professional work, I imagine that you have created a lot of frameworks, right? And there’s a lot of like step one, step two, but yet in your parenting, it’s not that that doesn’t exist and I’m just learning about your world as a parent. But it’s clear and it’s, it’s obvious by what you said here, that you’re definitely creating room for your kids to make their own decisions.

Marcus Sheridan: Well, you know, I appreciate that, Jon. I think if we’re being very honest with ourselves, especially at first a kid comes to us, our child comes to us, they ask us a question and we tend to give them answers.

[00:42:50]    Marcus Sheridan: And oftentimes we want to give them answers because again, if we’re being honest, we want to feel smart. We want them to think that we’re smart. We want to be the hero and it’s also more efficient. It’s quick to give the answer. The problem is if we just give answers, it doesn’t induce self discovery. And so I truly believe one of the great keys to life, and this is in any type of communication, is that we learn how to enable our audience to discover that which we’re trying to tell them before we actually have to tell it to them. Now for years, my wife really struggle with this and she, it was, it was so cool for both of us that really over the last seven or eight years, whereas before kid would ask a question and she would just answer it now. Now she just stops and she says, well, as long as you can see our minds and there’s a better way here, you know, and it’s the opposite actually of saying go look it up.

[00:43:43]    Marcus Sheridan: Or when we were kids it was, you know, go in the encyclopedia and it’s not on the other end of that. It’s like, Hey, what do you think it is? What do you think the, it’s actually more than that. It’s, you know, I love the question, what do you say? We go on a journey together and figure it out. And when that is the mindset, you can do some incredible, I had this thing happened one time. One of my kids asked me, Jon, I said, why does the sun rise in the morning? Right? Great question. Right? And so in most cases there’s a very scientific answer for that that many parents would give. But I see the world in the form of question and I said, I bet you we can figure this out together. And so we started to talk about it and I was asking you a question which led to a discovery to discovery.

[00:44:30]    Marcus Sheridan: And to make a story short, Jon, literally what happened is all the sudden my daughter says, wait, wait a sec. Wait a sec. Wait a sec. Wait a sec, wait, wait, wait, wait. The Sun isn’t actually moving. I’m like, okay, keep going. So the earth is the thing that’s actually moving. Now, the thing about this, in this moment, that person literally feels like Socrates, they were the ones that figured out that the earth is spinning. Even though it’s common knowledge. And so how many of those experiences do we induce as parents? And I would argue not as many as we could, but when we think about, and again, you have to, you can’t, it’s a fine line because it’s a very different than just saying, what do you think it is? Yeah. It’s let’s go on a journey and figure it out together. Hmm.

[00:45:31]    Jon Vroman: Boy, that’s so good. All right. Well listen, that’s a great place for us to wrap. At least this part of the conversation. I loved all that. Marcus really gave me something to think about and I know that there are guys out there who are just nodding their heads in agreement that all of what we just explored is going to make a huge difference. And not only how they show up at home tonight if you’re listening to this on the ride home, but how they might talk to their children, I think is going to be really powerful. So, and what’s cool is that the other thing about your concept is that it’s not one that ever gets old or they outgrow, right, bro. Yeah. In fact, it’s those conversations and those questions and those discoveries like your children could be in their thirties forties fifties sixties and you can be,

[00:46:12]    Marcus Sheridan: This is why in my wife and I, except that she’s not bothered by this. When my daughter wants to rant, you know complaints. She goes to her mom and they talk about it. When she has a major problem she needs to solve, she comes to me. Yeah, and it’s because she knows that, okay, we’re going to figure something out together.

[00:46:34]    Jon Vroman: Yeah. Boy, that’s a great space to be in dad, that’s really cool. Mark is a couple of final questions here man. Just to wrap us up today. One is do you have a family tradition that you treasure, perhaps more so than others? I realize it’s hard to say your favorite, but this could be a daily, weekly, monthly, yearly tradition, anything that seems to show up regularly for your family.

[00:47:00]    Marcus Sheridan: So we have a few of those. One that we do, I know not everybody listening to this, and hopefully they’ll get the principle behind this and not take it as a religious thing per se. But Christmas morning in our house is really different than I would say most homes. What we always do is as soon as it’s Christmas morning and the kids wake up, everybody comes into our room and we all sit on our king size bed together in a circle and we talk about what made the year special and we’re very specific in what we’re grateful for. And then we talk about what we’re going to do as a goal individually for the next year. And the great thing is, and then we also review what we had written down the previous year. Whoa. And so it becomes this really great intimate, powerful conversation that shifts the focus from gifts of, of stuff, right?

[00:48:01]    Marcus Sheridan: Like, like tangible gifts to what really is most important, which is family and which is growth and what we believe. And that’s been just a beautiful tradition that has completely shifted our kids in terms of the way they see what could be misconstrued or accurately portrayed as commercial. You know, the time of year.

                        Jon Vroman: Now how old by the way, when they started this?

                        Marcus Sheridan: Well, so I think the first time we did it was probably when my oldest daughter was maybe nine or 10 and so we’ve been doing it the last eight years.

                        Jon Vroman: So you’ve had young kids, they’re in the circle.

Marcus Sheridan: Absolutely.

                        Jon Vroman: I just have this vision of my son Ocean who’s four just like, please can we do presents yet, please.

                        Marcus Sheridan: But I think if everybody knows that it’s coming, you have to prep it and you have to get people in the right mindset. And I think they also know that if we’re able to do these things, then when we get to that other stuff even quicker.

[00:49:07]    Marcus Sheridan: I’ve told this to people and they said, man, it changed our entire Christmas morning. And that’s for any ritual that you have, any holiday that you have. Just those intimate around in a circle. On top of that. Just I love that thought of us sitting on top of the bed, sitting in, they install, reflecting on what was the previous year and talking about what will be the next year and being very specific with what we’re grateful for. It’s a spiritual experience, man.

                        Jon Vroman: So cool. I like it. And uh, last question here, Marcus. When you think of somebody who is a family man with a business, not a businessman with a family, and you think about somebody that you really admire and respect who’s been perhaps been very successful in business but as certainly put family first in their lineup with our intentions, just world class family man who comes to mind and why?

[00:49:57]    Marcus Sheridan: One person that has impressed me is the founder of Social Media Examiner, Michael Stelzner. So he’s got a really huge event called social media marketing world and he’s got a major website and he’s, he’s all about social media. But what I love is I’ve personally met his kids, his daughters, they sit in the front row of his event, he integrates them into the mix and he really cares. He really, really cares. And I’m actually, because my world is speaking so much of it is speaking. Jon, one of the things that bothers me is that in Joey Coleman, I would’ve said him too, but he’s already known by your audience. I would say he’s actually a really, really good one. There’s not enough that immediately come to mind because I’ve seen too many situations where people travel a lot and they become known by the world, but they become unknown and unfamiliar by their very own family that’s at home. I think that is one of the great tragedies to life. And for me, I said, well, why do I have to travel alone regardless of the age of the Child? And so because we made this decision, it has of all the things I’ve done in my life, it’s the thing far and away that I’m most proud of. No question,

[00:51:16]    Jon Vroman: Marcus. This is awesome, man. You gave me chills, but this known by the world, but I’m known by your family. Holy Cow, man, that I’m going to sit with that one. I’m going to sit with that. Uh, that’s a big one. That’s really huge. So Buddy, this did not disappoint for me at all.

[00:51:38]    Marcus Sheridan: I’m so grateful to be here talking about things that touch the heart. Honestly, they make me feel emotional talking about them and you know you’re talking about the right thing. If you feel moved, there’s different types of invigoration and this certainly was one of them.

[00:51:52]    Jon Vroman: Yeah, well it was a great conversation man. And a, if people want to find you, where can they go connect?

[00:51:57]    Marcus Sheridan: Well on Twitter I’m @thesaleslion and it’s kinda silly sounding but that’s what it is. The Sales Lion or you can just email me directly. Marcus@marcussheridan.com is the easiest one day crime yet. Marcus@marcussheridan.com. Linkedin, I’m very active there, very active on Linkedin. But hopefully I’ll, I’ll see some folks in the future and if, Yep, literally I do. If I said something here that you have further questions about, I hope you’ll personally email me. We can maybe have a conversation about it.

[00:52:24]    Jon Vroman: Cool. And also I would encourage any of you out there listening, if you heard something on this show that particularly when a sparks a question for you, post that in the community page, the Front Row Dads’ open community page as well cause then you can get a bunch of other insights attached to that. So bringing your conversations to that community as well. And Marcus, thank you so much man for your time today. I honor you brother and thank you for shaping a world that my kids are ultimately growing up in. So your family is impacting mine and I’m deeply thankful for that.

[00:52:56]    Marcus Sheridan: My pleasure buddy. Appreciate it.

[00:52:59]    Jon Vroman: Hey guys, if you haven’t already done so, go right now to frontrowdads.com/facebook and join the conversation that’s happening right now on line. We designed this group for guys who are entrepreneurial in their thinking that are high performing guys with low egos. We’re looking for the dads that believe in teaching their kids how to think, solve problems and be real leaders. We’re looking for guys who believe in being family men with businesses, not businessmen with families. We’re looking for the fathers who have great knowledge but also believe that they have so much more to learn and we’re looking for men who want to add value by sharing their wisdom and those that are willing to ask the questions that we all need and want answers to. That’s frontrowdads.com/facebook or simply go to Facebook, type in front row dads and you’ll get to our group and what we put in there, links to all the podcasts and videos and other resources that you can’t get access to anywhere else except for in this group. We want to give you the best ideas to help you with your marriage, balancing work and family life communication strategies with your spouse and also your children, travel ideas and even suggestions on the latest gear that would save you time and help you be more effective. We’ve got updates on upcoming events and so much more. Go right now to front row dads.com/facebook and join the conversation. I’ll look forward to connecting with you there.

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