The Ultimate Unschooling Adventure with Ben Greenfield

Family bow hunts.


Kid podcasting.

Natural consequences.

If these topics catch your attention, they are just scratching the surface of what’s covered in my interview here with Ben Greenfield, an epic Dad, Husband and Family Man.

Ben has some super creative strategies for leading his 11-year old twin boys — to say I was fascinated would be an understatement.    

More About Ben Greenfield …

His bio? Buckle up…there’s A LOT to cover…

Ben was homeschooled K-12.

He was president of the chess club, played violin for 13 years, wrote fantasy fiction and spent most of his childhood years with his nose in a book.

Ben graduated at 15.

He began college at 16, playing singles and doubles for the men’s tennis team.

For four years, Ben studied anatomy, physiology, biomechanics, pharmaceuticals, microbiology, biochemistry and nutrition, eventually rising to the top of his class.

While attaining a 4.0 GPA in his advanced science courses, he competed as president of the triathlon club, middle for the men’s volleyball team, holeset for the water polo team and was a muscle-bound bodybuilder at 215 pounds and 3% body fat.

Ben was then accepted into six medical schools (what a great case for homeschooling!), but opted to instead attain a master’s degree in exercise physiology and biomechanics.

In 2005, he leapt hardcore into the fitness world, partnering with physicians and opening a series of personal training studios, and eventually being voted as America’s top personal trainer in 2008.

While building his empire in the brick-and-mortar fitness industry, Ben competed as one of the top ranked amateur triathletes in the world, completing over 120 races and 12 Ironman triathlons while racing for the elite Team Timex multisport team, winning gold medal for the USA in long course triathlon, and leading squads of swim, bike and run enthusiasts in guided adventures through Hawaii, Thailand, Japan and beyond.

Eventually, Ben became the father of twin sons and pivoted into media, writing, speaking and consulting, launching one of the world’s first fitness podcasts, becoming a New York Times bestselling author of “Beyond Training” and 13 books, designing and creating the Christian Gratitude Journal, and starting a blog that now reaches over a million rabid fans each month.

During this time, while making a name for himself as a relentless self-experimenter and biohacker, Ben became a professional obstacle course racer, completing the coveted Spartan Delta, training with the Navy SEALs, competing across the globe in open water swims, mountain runs and adventure races, winning multiple USA bowhunting competitions, and appearing on the planet’s toughest reality TV shows.

In 2013 and 2014, Ben was named as one of the world’s top 100 most influential people in health and fitness.

As founder and CEO of Kion, Ben now creates step-by-step solutions – from supplements and fitness gear, to coaching and consulting, to education and media – for the world’s hard-charging, high-achievers to live a truly limitless life with fully optimized minds, bodies and spirits – all from his quiet home on 10 acres in the forested wilderness of Washington state.

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Read The Transcript

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[00:00:00] Ben Greenfield: A big part of it is just osmosis. The kids see us exercising or not heavily engaged in TV or video games. They’re also educated about the impact of some of that stuff on their physiology, but there is never a rule in our home that creates a forbidden fruit like, oh, you’re only allowed an hour of TV. You’re only allowed 20 minutes of smartphone usage in the morning and an hour in the evening or whatever. Like there’s no rules. There’s just education.


[00:00:27] Jon Vroman: Hi Fellas, I’m glad you’re here today for this conversation with my new friend Ben Greenfield, and if you’re new to the show, welcome to the front row dads podcast. I’m your host, Jon Vroman and I think you’re going to be fascinated by this conversation today with Ben. I know I’ve been looking forward to this for a long time and I really want to take a moment to tell you about Ben to tee this up because I think hearing a little bit about his life, especially his early years, help you understand the conversation we’re about to have, which is how he is raising his boys right now. I’m going to take a little bit longer than normal to tell you about Ben’s past before we get into the actual interview. But check this out. I think you’ll understand why. So basically Ben was homeschooled k through 12, right?


[00:01:08] Jon Vroman: Grew up, uh, you know, played violin for 13 years, wrote fantasy fiction and spent a lot of his childhood with a nose in a book somewhere, right? B, graduated at 15 and began college at 16. Now this is where it keeps getting more, more fascinating. Plays singles and doubles for the men’s tennis team for four years. He studies anatomy, physiology, biomechanics, pharmaceuticals, microbiology. This guy’s world now is all about fitness and nutrition, biohacking and you can see the start was very early on now ultimately rose to the top of his class after an internship at Duke. He ended up graduating as one of the top seniors in his class from the University of Idaho. He did a ton of things. He’s always doing a ton of things. He was a bartender, a personal trainer, a lab assistant, a nutritionist, a spinning instructor. This is like a theme for his life, right?


[00:01:56] Jon Vroman: You got a 4.0 GPA and his advanced science courses. He was the president of a triathlon club. He was on the men’s volleyball team. He played water polo and he was a bodybuilder, 215 pounds, 3% body fat. He was then accepted into six medical schools. This is an amazing case for homeschooling, by the way, a great testimony, but instead of going to med school, he opted for a master’s degree and exercise physiology and biomechanics, right? So he leaped into the fitness world hardcore. He partnered with physicians. He opened up a personal training studios and ultimately was voted as America’s top personal trainer. This all the way in 2008 right? So He’s been a busy guy in his life. So he built this empire, this brick and mortar business, right? And he was one of the top rank amateur triathletes in the world, competed in over 120 races, 12 iron man triathlons, and even won a gold medal for the USA and long course triathlon.


[00:02:57] Jon Vroman: Right? Eventually Ben becomes the father of two twin boys who are now 11 and we get, this is the base of our show today, right? And I just wanted to ask them a gazillion questions about his philosophy on raising these two amazing kids that you’ll learn all about in the show. But now he’s in the world of writing and speaking and consulting. He’s got one of the biggest podcasts out there. He uh, is in New York Times bestselling author of a book called Beyond Trainiing. And his blog reaches over a million people a month. So he’s a relentless self experimenter, bio hacker, you know, he is trying and testing new things constantly, which I really appreciate. And the bio just never ends right? Open water swims, mountain runs, adventure races, bow hunting competitions. It’s like I just, where does the guy find the time? And he gets into it, right?


[00:03:49] Jon Vroman: Talks about his schedule today and I think you’ll really understand where he finds the time to live such a dynamic life. Anyway, so it goes on and on, right? He was named one of the top 100 most influential people in the health and fitness space. He has been a coach to the elite of the elite, the top CEOs, chefs, anybody. And everybody has gone to this guy for advice. And so many of my friends are like, you got to meet Ben, you got to meet Ben, you got to talk to Ben. And so we did. And here we go. This is a show I’ve been really looking forward to for many, many months. This took a long time to get this interview and now down because Ben’s got a lot going on. Uh, last thing I’ll say about Ben is he is the founder and CEO of Kion, which he talks about on his own podcast, which I listened to and appreciate very, very much.


[00:04:32] Jon Vroman: I have to oftentimes stop, pause, think, listen to things two or three times, because even if such a fast pace and he’s got so much knowledge, it’s truly incredible. But this is a, uh, supplements and fitness gear and all this stuff, which you can find on his website of course. But, uh, this guy is really helping people to optimize their mind, body, and soul so that they can deliver their best to the world. And I wanted to figure out what he’s doing for his own kids at home to help them become these incredible champions. And so I know he has really high standards. I know he has all this information and I just wanted to get into how does he view fatherhood, right? What is he doing with his kids to make it all work? So guys, that is all I’m going to say about Ben.


[00:05:13] Jon Vroman: You can read more about them online. The guy’s info is everywhere and he’s really making a big impact in the world. I wanted you guys to have access to this conversation and so I know you’re going to dig this guys, if you enjoy this show, please share this episode. Get it out to as many people as possible. Cause I think what Ben is sharing on this show is just awesome. It’s like, hey, some of it you might be like, wow, that’s really incredible. Like, I don’t know how you’re going to take it, but I think it’s great for conversation. I think it’s awesome. I’m super inspired by Ben. So share the episode please and and also, uh, I wanna thank all of you who took a moment this past week to write a review on the show. We want to get the show out to as many men as possible.


[00:05:56] Jon Vroman: We believe that these conversations can shape families and ultimately shape the world and we think this information is so important and if you’d believe that as well, then please give the show a quick rating and review. You can just go to front row and that should pop open an iTunes page, which you can just follow the links, just leave it a rating and review or you can leave a rating review anywhere. Podcasts can be found and we’ll appreciate that as well. But thanks to Corban Myers for leaving this one as well. He wrote as a father who juggles work and the family life balance. I love the podcast. It’s been so enlightening for me and it’s extremely enjoyable to listen to. Thanks for all you guys do and also Ben, I want to thank you for the podcast. This is not Ben Greenfield. This is somebody else who wrote a review here.


[00:06:36] Jon Vroman: At least I think it’s there in. I highly recommend for anyone looking to grow as a father, husband or man. Talking about my feelings and emotions has always been very difficult in this podcast is provided me with different strategies and approaches that I can improve. It’s part of my daily routine so thanks so much. That’s Ben M, 4,0,7 really appreciate that guys. Again, if you want to tell us how we’re doing front row and you can tell us they’re outside of that. Guys, I know you’ve been hearing me talk about it. We’re going to be opening up membership for our front row dads community right around father’s day, so be on the lookout for that. That information is coming your way. So make sure you’re part of the front row dads Facebook group and also that you’re getting our weekly emails because that’s one of the ways that we’ll notify about when it opens up and how to get more information so you can decide if this is the right brotherhood for you.


[00:07:20] Jon Vroman: But look, we all need to be around amazing people. If you want to change your life, then change the type of people that you’re learning from and with and everything in your world changes when you change that piece. So we want to create a high standard for performance here for you as a husband, a father, and a family man so that you can succeed there and in your work guys, this is the mission, right? Create a brotherhood that changes the world. We want to do that here at front row dads, we’d love for you to be part of it. If all this feels like it aligns with you, that’s for now. Let’s get into the show and join this conversation when the new buddy Ben Greenfield.


[00:07:59] Speaker 3: [inaudible]


[00:07:59] Jon Vroman: Hi Ben, been looking forward to this man. Welcome to front row dads.


[00:08:03] Ben Greenfield: Hey, thanks dude. Thanks, uh, thank for trying me on. It’s good to chat to a fellow dad.


[00:08:08] Jon Vroman: So where are you now man? I know you’re walking for those who can’t see what’s going on, you’re on treadmill?


[00:08:15] Ben Greenfield: I am walking on a treadmill. Yeah. In my office. Yup. Just  staying at home at Spokane, Washington down in my man cave basement. And uh, yeah, just on the home front.


[00:08:26] Jon Vroman: Dude. Let’s some, there’s so much that we can get into today. And, and obviously your world has been pretty well explored both on your own show and the many shows that you’ve been on. So let’s talk about what’s relevant right now for you dude, what are you excited about? What’s going on in your world?


[00:08:40] Ben Greenfield: Well, a lot of stuff. Uh, I just just finished the manuscript on a big book on, uh, it’s kind of like a, a guide to the human body, almost like a blueprint, so to speak, for maximizing the health of the gut and the immune system, you know, sleep, performance, fat loss, and even delves into gratitude and spirituality and longevity, a host of different factors. So the name of that book is Boundless and I’ll come out in January. I’m also about halfway through my next fiction book, uh, which, uh, my sons are the inspiration for their two young for protagonists who cross over into other worlds and use their powers over the elements of water and earth. Uh, and their names are River and Terra and respectively. And I give them the real names in the book to, uh, to kind of save other planets through almost like a hero’s journey type of story.


[00:09:35] Ben Greenfield: And so yeah, a lot of writing, a lot of traveling just got back from a family, uh, archery hunts down in Kona, Hawaii. I took my kids on their first bow hunt after wild pig and my wife went out for goats and sheep. And, uh, we also just finished our first big bow hunting competition together as a family. And then we’ll be tackling a five mile obstacle course race here next weekend up on Mount Spokane. So a little bit of kind of outdoor adventure type of stuff. And then probably something that’s occupied a great deal of my time that I’m admittedly nervous. And also excited about is I gave my, my boys the option to after fifth grade kind of complete school and instead move into more of an unschooling scenario in which life serves as their primary educational experience. Meaning that rather than going to school and even rather than engaging in a traditional kind of homeschool scenario of, you know, gathering around books on the kitchen table, uh, they will instead be traveling the world with me.


[00:10:39] Ben Greenfield: They’ll be learning life skills through life itself. You know, for example, their math curriculum. This summer we’ll be a building a tree fort, uh, under the supervision of a local contractor who will teach them woodworking and mathematics and angle skills and geometry and, and a little bit of architecture thrown in and they’ll kind of use a combination of both Google sketchup and some, uh, online and computer based tools as well as just working with their hands out in the forest to, to build a tree for it, uh, you know, their, their health. This summer we’ll be, there’ll be traveling to Switzerland with me to watch me teach for two weeks at a health retreat over there. That’s kind of focused on European biological medicine, their science and their chemistry. They’re basically all summer long and for cooking classes and cooking camps and kind of learning molecular gastronomy and how, how starches and proteins and fats interplay.

[00:01:35] Ben Greenfield: And then they’ll also be doing some some cooking classes also when they’re with me or in Switzerland and Italy. And so basically the goal here is to teach them through life. And really, you know, a big part of that is not only that, you know, based on what can be learned in books such as free to play or books such as homeschooling to university, both two very good books on this idea of using life as a learning process for your children rather than traditional school as a learning process for your children. It’s based not only on the idea that we know from studies that kids tend to burn out and to lose their passion for school around the age of 13, when all the tests, all the homework, all the learning at the same rate as everyone else in the classroom, all of the, the lineup and become a good little factory worker type of scenarios tend to, uh, make a kid start to regret or almost a lose the joy that schooling often gives them up until that age, you know, when it’s usually a lot more social and kind of fun and play.


[00:12:42] Ben Greenfield: And I wanted to nip that in the bud. Uh, in addition to that, when you read a book, you know, such as a whole Navon Harari is, you know, 21 lessons for the 21st century, you know, or anything else that’s kind of forward facing and it looks at how the world’s going to be changing based on the rapidly expanding emergence of things like artificial intelligence, technology, automation, et Cetera. Someone who’s able to engage in one skill repetitively or who, who doesn’t grow up learning how to be kind of a free spirited, resilient, adaptive thinker is probably not going to thrive in that scenario because we’re going to find that jobs are rapidly replaced. That something that you may have relied upon for income or for your career at one point in time is replaced by a robot or replaced by technology or replaced by automation. And so I think it’s more important that a young man or woman learn how to adapt in a very quick and efficient way to changing times and also to be able to, to learn through life experiences versus, you know, learning from a textbook and not being able to adapt more quickly as one might learn through through internships and practicals and, and hands on experience.


[00:14:02] Ben Greenfield: So I think it’s also important just in terms of the way that they’ll kind of tackle, tackle their career going forward. So ultimately that’s kind of the thing that I’ve been most busy with is just kind of piecing together what their unschooling scenario is going gonna look like. Kind of basically listening very carefully to them, having lots of chats with them about what they’re passionate about, what they’re interested in, whether that be cooking or chemistry or graphic novels or computer programming or anything else, and not necessarily putting them into classes. Although I’m doing a little bit of, you know, I’m putting them in some camps and, and where I feel that there’s a need, you know, getting them certain tutors for different activities like say Jujitsu or Spanish or, or cooking. But more importantly, I’m simply listening to what their passions are and then surrounding them with as many materials and experiences that fuel those passions as possible.


[00:14:59] Ben Greenfield: When they wake up in the morning, they won’t have a set curriculum that says, you know, from 10 to 11 you this from 11 to 12 you do this, et cetera. Instead, it will be, you know, you’re interested in American history. Well, you know, the game constitution quest is downstairs. All these different documentaries on American history and movies on American history or by the television. There are books by Mark Twain and Arthur Conan Doyle and, and other wonderful picture books on American history, a in the basement on the shelf and you guys can just play around with anything you want regarding American history. If there’s something you want to learn that you don’t have access to, fine. You know, and I, and I’ve got, you know, all the Lego architecture models for the, for the White House and you know, all these different other, you know, kind of a American landmarks so they can build and play around with that kind of crosses over into their interest in architecture and, and building.


[00:15:52] Ben Greenfield: And so yeah, the idea is I’m just basically using all the money I’d normally spend on no tuition and instead just buying things for our house that they can play with that fuel, their passions and interests and then moving forward, you know, it will be just a matter of continuing to listen to and observe. They’re growing and expanding and changing passions and interests and continuing to surround them with as many things as possible as I can surround them with so that they can kind of play with those passions and fuel those passions and and learn in the way that they learn best or the way the child learns best, which is basically through play and exploration, not necessarily through like structured classroom activities.


[00:16:33] Jon Vroman: Well, I’m just going to throw out the rest of the 12 questions that I had for the day show. Dude, this is an awesome subject. I want to just spend our time here. Let’s just, this is great. I mean there is a, a hundred places we could’ve gotten today, but this is the one I want to take a deep dive into, so I love this man. This is so great. All right, let’s get into this a little bit. I’m starting with what role are you going to play and what role does your wife play? And let’s talk about that from a practical standpoint, because, did anybody could look at your life right now and, and be asking the question, how on earth are you? What time are you able to commit to this? I mean, I know you said you got some tutors coming in and you’ll have some camps they’ll go to, but I’ve explored this same idea, but one of the biggest questions I have is how much time could I really devote to my kids in this scenario? How much would they be totally on their own? How much am I going to be around to answer their questions or guide them, because they’re such, they love to be around people. They love to be asking questions. And so talk to me a little bit about the practical aspect of this you did already, but expand on that, if you will.


[00:17:34] Ben Greenfield: Well, both mom and I work from home mom largely as a homemaker, a doing things like taking care of the goats and the chickens and you know, gardening and, uh, tending to the land and, and caring for the animals. And so they will of course, uh, you know, they’re lucky enough to be interested in things like animal husbandry and caring for the goats and tending to the chickens and they’re very interested in gardening and growing plants. And so, you know, they’ll spend a lot of time


[00:18:04] Ben Greenfield: just doing with mom what mom is out doing anyways during the day. I also work from home as well as travel quite extensively around the world to speak and to console and even to compete in different races, you know, particularly things like obstacle course races and triathlons. And so the way the scenario looks is when I’m at home during the day, I’ll be doing some of their activities with them, right? So we have a Jujitsu instructor coming over at noon before lunch, three days of the week and he’ll be rolling with both me and the boys. I’ll be getting up a once they start into the scenario and then they’re literally done with school in two days from now. So I’ll be restructuring my schedule to get up a little bit earlier. You know, right now I rise around six. I’ll start to rise around five, you know, and for a little while I’ll set a little alarm.


[00:18:57] Ben Greenfield: Uh, probably use, I like to wake up gradually. So I’ll use, you know, something a little bit kinder to the circadian rhythm, like a sunrise alarm clock or a, I have a couple of clocks that will kind of like detect when you reach your life phases of your sleep cycle and wake you up during the lightest phase of your sleep cycle so you’re not too groggy. But I’ll start to wake up closer to five to get my morning routine done. You know, some of my breath works and my gratitude practice, uh, working out, et cetera. With the goal being that our family will gather around seven to seven 30 in the morning. We’re a spiritual family and we’re a Christian family and I think it’s very important that the Davy started off with an emphasis on the spiritual disciplines. You know, the spiritual disciplines being things like meditation, prayer, gratitude, worship and community.


[00:19:46] Ben Greenfield: Even silence and solitude to a certain extent. So when I’m at home from a, the hours between about seven and eight, I’ll be leading the family in a gratitude practice, uh, in reading of scripture, uh, playing songs. We’ll all break out into about 15 minutes or so of meditation and we’ll have varying options for that. I, you know, I’ve, I bought the boys, you know, amuse headband and, and you know, I touches loaded up with meditation app should they want to use technology for meditation, which I does. I think that does have some benefits. Uh, will also be, you know, going outside and doing more like native American style set spots, a candlestick meditation in the Sauna, et cetera. But every day will begin when I’m at home with kind of a deep dive into the spiritual practices as well as a kind of a scripture verse that we memorize at the beginning of each day so that they, they place God’s word on their heart and then we’ll end each day kind of with that same word, returning to, you know, what it is that we are grateful for and what was the scripture that we learned.


[00:20:46] Ben Greenfield: And so when I’m traveling, I’ll be supporting mom and leading that practice, but it’ll be a little bit more of a deal where I’ll basically be calling them up in the morning and just having a chat with the family each morning when I’m traveling and they’re not with me. And then throughout the day, you know, anytime they have something that, that they want to explore, you know, even though I’m working and recording podcasts I’m writing, et Cetera, my job is such that I can break away when I need to answer questions for them or help them out with something they need helping out with. So for me, my role will be to passively support, right. Primarily I’ll be leading them in the morning to start off their day on a really good note and then kind of bookending that at the end of the day by gathering the family together, which we do anyways.


[00:21:32] Ben Greenfield: Like we have these long family dinners and I always tuck them into bed, read them a story, go through their gratitude journals with them, et cetera. So my role won’t really change in that respect, but it will change in that. I’ll be working with them a little bit more to make sure that I’ve surrounded them, you know, if they need a book, if they need a something for a project and into anything like that, my role will be to help them out with that. And then also to support them throughout the day by answering their questions. They’ll also, and again, this is kind of where I take some of the money I’d normally be spending on tuition and shifted into other areas, particularly, you know, books and supplies and things they need for home. And then also plane tickets because there’ll be traveling more with me when I go to a spartan race, when I go to triathlon, when I go teach in Switzerland, whatever, you know, I’ve got a two week tour of the Middle East, uh, in the fall.


[00:22:22] Ben Greenfield: They’re coming with me on all of these different adventures. So you know, granted, I think that there is a dark side to hypermobility. I think that being on a plane and constantly changing your, your circadian rhythms and getting exposed to airline radiation, all the hectic nature of travel, you know, whisking a child away from their friends at home, et Cetera. I’m not one of those people who’s enamored with likes the, the nomadic homeschooling lifestyle. However, for kind of the more important adventures, I’ll be putting them on the plane with me and then bring them along with me on some of my adventures where they’ll simply be shadowing me, following me, competing with me, et cetera. And so that’ll change a little bit. You know, it’ll be a little more of a pain in the ass to go through the airport with two boys rather than just myself.


[00:23:08] Ben Greenfield: It will be a little more of a pain in the ass when I’m teaching at a conference and need to make sure my kids are taken cared of and they brush their teeth and gotten ready for the day and they’re dressed and they’re able to come with me. But ultimately they’ll change a little bit in terms of, of the amount of travel there’ll be doing with me. But ultimately the fact that mom and I are both at home means that I’ll be there in a supportive role anyways. And I also have one, a young man who’s working with me named James and he, when I travel and I say, okay, we’re traveling to Italy, I want you to hunt down and we’ll be in for three days. I want you to find here’s the boys interest, right? They like escape rooms, Italian cooking classes. They want to see an opera and want to go visit Lake Como and they would like to do a tour of the Duomo and see DaVinci’s last supper and go to the Davinci Science Museum.


[00:24:03] Ben Greenfield: Well he’ll basically look at our schedule, look our itinerary and make sure all the reservations and everything are set up. So I have one kind of like boots on the ground, assistant for travel, and then I also have an at-home assistant who can help out with things like driving the boys to different camps or classes if they’ve signed up for a certain events, making sure that if they need to be signed up for something, she signs them up. Making sure that, you know, if a, whatever the Jujitsu instructor is going to come over at certain times during the day that scheduled each week and basically kind of helping out on the local front. So I’ve got a couple of people who will kind of be helping out a little bit with that. I also have built a, a big part of my business based on the use of kind of like outsourcing, almost like the Tim Ferris for our work week type of deal


[00:24:49] Ben Greenfield: And, and so I have for example, a virtual assistant team in the Philippines, you know, they do all my shopping and all my spreadsheeting, all my research, et cetera. So let’s say I need like, you know, 10 of the best, highest rated Amazon reviewed books on American history that fall into the category of, you know, something a 12 to 18 year old would be able to, to reason understand. I’ll send that over to them and just be like, hey shop for this, here’s what I need. Find the best deal. I’ll have them shipped to our house by whatever July 1st. And so I’ve kind of got like a shopping team who can help me out with stuff to a research team, so to speak. And so I’ll certainly take advantage of some of those resources as well. 


[00:25:31] Jon Vroman: Starting to understand how you can get so much done, Ben.


[00:25:33] Ben Greenfield: This is awesome man.


[00:25:36] Jon Vroman: Dude, talk to me about involving them in the business and are you paying them and are, you know, how do you work money with them and yeah.


[00:25:43] Ben Greenfield: They are involved in my business at all per se. They’ve certainly done things like they’ll help out some times. Well one example would be like, I wanted to send a personal letter to my top 100 customers for my cell phone company Kion and so I had them kind of like take a postcard and write out, you know, thank you for supporting my dad. We love your support, you know, signed River and Terran, and, and I’ll basically pay them to like, you know, sign a hundred cards and then work with our system NASA to make sure those are, those are brought to the post office and sent. But you know, it’s kind of few and far between.


[00:26:18] Ben Greenfield: That’ll directly involved in my own business like that, frankly, because they have their own business, right? They saw me running a podcast, they’re very interested in cooking, so I helped them to launch their own cooking podcasts where twice a month they develop a new recipe or they go to a restaurant that they want to do a review on or they’ll do like a, a plant foraging or, or you know, a podcast and any, anything based on food and they’ll record the episode. Uh, and then I’ve helped them to land different sponsorships from different companies, uh, that have provided them with a cut of the sales they generate, meaning they have a specific affiliate link they’ll use when they mentioned a certain company on the show, they also have an Amazon affiliate account where if they talk about a blender or a cookbook or something like that and someone clicks through using their Amazon affiliate link, they’ll profit from that.


[00:27:09] Ben Greenfield:  And then they also have a, a VA who they pay $150 a month to, to do the podcast editing and to upkeep their website and their social media channels. And so they, they basically are making money doing that. And they’re also teaching, uh, once a month local cooking class to kids where kids can buy a ticket, go in and watch river and Terran prepare a meal. They get to taste the meal but get little recipe cards. And so those, those are decent sources of revenue for them, uh, they’ll occasionally, they don’t have an allowance, but they’ll occasionally get paid if there’s like a bigger, you know, if they have to like clean out the whole goat barn or do something that’s a little bit more intensive, we’ll pay them to do things like that. But really, as far as my own business, you know, Ben Greenfield fitness, which involves, you know, like my consulting, my speaking, my writing, my podcasting, et Cetera, or my supplements business Kion.


[00:28:02] Ben Greenfield: They’re really not that involved with either of those. They certainly know everything I do and we talk about my job, you know, at the table and, and you know, I’ll fill them in if there’s anything interesting that I want to fill them in about, you know, such as, you know, whatever. I discovered a new podcasting platform that might be interesting for your guys show for, for Go Greenfields or here’s a sponsor that approached me about advertising on my show and they either couldn’t afford my ad rates or I felt like they’d be a sponsor who would be a better for food podcasts, like your guys’ show. And so I’ll connect them with that sponsor and get them on a Skype call with them. And usually, you know, brewing their, their virtual assistant who’s helping them out with their podcasts and the mix. And so, you know, there’s some crossover there since we’re both kind of running a podcast company.


[00:28:49] Ben Greenfield: But as far as direct involvement with my business, there’s not a whole lot yet. Same thing with mom. She’s really not that involved with my business. You know, for a while she was like, uh, you know, she and I were doing something called healthy homework shop together where we teach people how to do like slow fermented sourdough bread and different recipes and teach about household cleaning chemicals and personal care products and all this stuff. That’s kind of more healthy. Home-Related. But we found that we just, honestly, we didn’t enjoy working together like we didn’t enjoy, you know, hey babe, did you edit that recipe yet? Or Hey Ben, I really need your help shooting this video or shut up Ben, the kitchen’s too loud. I need to shoot it this way or whatever. So, you know, we kind of phased out of that and my wife, you know, more just manages the household and doesn’t do a whole lot in terms of, of being involved with my business. You know, she’ll occasionally hop on a plane with me and go teach a conference that I’m teaching at if someone has requested she come in and do like a private cooking class or something like that. But either Jess or the boys are heavily involved in my business.


[00:29:52] Jon Vroman: Hey guys, I want to take a second to tell you about our front row dads retreat. If you would value connecting with a brotherhood of likeminded and lighthearted guys who want to deepen their sense of purpose and meaning as fathers and within their families and to talk about and share the best practices and the strategies for ultimate family success, then this event might be for you. If you add value being around high performing guys without the big egos, guys that believe in being family, men with businesses and not businessmen with families, you might enjoy our front row dads retreat twice a year. We’re getting together in person, small groups, cool locations, guest experts and so much more for these events. We’ve now done this multiple times. It has sold out every single time and if you’re excited about it, make sure to check it where you can apply for the next retreat now.


[00:30:43] Jon Vroman: Hi, one of the things you might be wondering is, does leaving my family make me a better dad or husband? The answer is for many of you, I know you travel a bunch, you do other things and the idea for this one is you have to retreat to advance. You have to take a step back to gain the perspective so that we can go back and crush it within our families. This is the same concept that works in business where you take a moment, you think, you plan, you strategize, you work on your family so that you can be better in your family. If that all sounds good, check it out. Front row


[00:31:13] Jon Vroman: Your boys are how old now?


[00:31:14] Ben Greenfield: There are 11, yeah. 


[00:31:16] Jon Vroman: How do you view discipline or you know when things aren’t going well? You know, if you’re frustrated if things, you know, if the boys are acting up or, you know, I and I, yeah, take that where you want it, but yeah, I imagine it’s not always perfect. 


[00:31:30] Ben Greenfield: Yeah. We use more of a, I guess formally it would be called the love and logic approach, meaning that rather than having laws or rules in our home, we simply educate our kids about the consequences of any decision that they’re going to make. So let’s say, you know, let’s take it very simple, you know, in the realm of like cooking or nutrition, let’s say like gluten, right? Like we don’t, we don’t say, Oh, you know, don’t eat gluten. You can’t go to your friend’s birthday party. Or if you go, you can’t eat the birthday cake or the cupcakes or we’re going to go out to this fancy steakhouse, but you can’t touch the bread basket cause it’s got gluten in it.


[00:32:08] Ben Greenfield: Instead, you know, I just educate them. I tell them, hey look, you know, there’s some evidence that gluten can cause some amount of neural inflammation that may influence your ability to be able to think or perform in your, in your cognitive duties next day. It might cause some lasting damage to the gut, especially if it’s from a source that’s been sprayed with glyphosate or, or a GMO based source of wheat. And, uh, these are the things that could help protect you against gluten. Like a, you know, like a gluten digesting enzyme like bi- peptidos, peptidase or a glyphosate protecting enzyme like lignite. And so I’ll put anything that helps to protect the body against gluten in the fridge and show them where it’s at. I’ll educate them on what the excess consumption of how gluten could do to their bodies and then just let them eat as much bread and cake and Biscotti and scones and cupcakes as they want.


[00:32:59] Ben Greenfield: And typically, you know, they’ll go to a friend’s birthday party and they’ll come back and they’ll be like, Hey dad, I, you know, they had really great cupcakes there. I had about half the cupcake cause I get some of that restore out of the fridge. And uh, it was really great cupcake but you know, I just wanted to eat a little bit or you know, bread at the restaurant. They’d be like, Hey dad, I’m going to have a couple of pieces of this. You got me that gluten guardian on you, you know, or in the case of something like, uh, let’s say, you know, exercise, right? Like I’ll, I’ll tell them, hey, dad’s gone to the gym. Uh, here’s the workout I’m going to be doing today. I’ll set some stuff to the side for you guys. If you want to come out and join me, feel free.


[00:33:36] Ben Greenfield: And then I’ll just go out and crushing the gym. And usually about halfway through, one of them will pop their head in and be like, Hey, what’s up bad? Can I use this sandbag or this little Kettlebell and could you show me this or that? And they’ll just show them. But I won’t say, Hey, you guys need to go out to the gym and do a hundred burpees. You know, there’s, there’s never like a law or a rule like that or something like smartphone use, right? Like there’s no rules in our house about how much they could watch TV or how long they can play video games or how much they could use the phone. I’ll simply tell them, hey, look, you know, if you have Wifi and Bluetooth on, on that device, uh, it could influence your neural development. If you have it down by your crotch, it’s definitely going to impact your sperm.


[00:34:17] Ben Greenfield: And even the, you know, the health of the kids that you’ll have some day. If you’ll look at the phone at night, it’s going to disrupt sleep cycles. And you know, I bought them blue light blocking glasses, showed them how to activate night mode on the phone, show them how to activate airplane mode on the phone and they’ll, you know, they’ll dink around the phone every now and again. But they’re really not that interested in it. You know, when it comes to TV and video games, mom and I don’t really do a lot. We don’t, we don’t watch a lot of TV. We don’t play a lot of video games. We do a ton of stuff outside. We’re always out playing family tennis or out in the yard, you know, playing on our little built home obstacle course or, or, um, you know, gardening or, or outside playing with the animals or swimming in a little pool or whatever.


[00:35:01] Ben Greenfield: And so, you know, a big part of is just osmosis. The kids see us exercising or not heavily engaged in TV or video games. They’re also educated about the impact of some of that stuff on their physiology. But there is never a rule in our home that creates a forbidden fruit. Like, Oh, you’re only allowed an hour of TV or you’re only allowed 20 minutes of smartphone usage in the morning and an hour in the evening or whatever. Like there’s no rules. There’s just education. I mean the same could even be said for something like alcohol, right? Like I grew up in a home where it was just like, no, you don’t touch wine. You don’t touch your beer. That’s illegal. It’s not allowed. Um, my first an experience with alcohol is like I stole a ball with Scotch from my dad’s office and got drunk in my bedroom when I was 15 cause I just had zero healthy exposure to alcohol, you know, whereas my kids, when a new bottle of wine comes, just like when a new bottle of olive oil comes, right?


[00:35:56] Ben Greenfield: Like, we’ll break it out, we’ll open it and I’ll be like, hey boys, this is, there’s a cab franc, come taste this and I’ll pour a little bit of a shot glass and teach them about the nose and how to identify elements of chocolate or, or rose or leather or cow or whatever, you know, with the olive oil, how do identify elements of time or rosemary or citrus and, and they’ll taste and they’ll enjoy it. And you know, I guarantee my kids are never gonna go like steal a bottle of wine from the pantry and go get drunk in their bedroom. Cause they’re curious about like what wine is because they’ve been exposed to it in a healthy environment from an early age. So there really is very, very few times in their, in their life have been very few times in their life when I’ll just be like, no, don’t do that.


[00:36:38] Ben Greenfield: You know, when they’re very young and you know, if they’re approaching like the fire in the living room. Yeah I won’t let them get a third degree burns throwing their arm into the fire. But you know, even in a situation like that, I’ll say hot, hot alley hot. And then if they go touch it and they burn themselves while they, they learned that lesson once and you know, hard lesson learned, they won’t have to learn it again, hopefully. But that’s much better than you just saying, no, no, no, don’t do that. We don’t allow that. That’s not allowed, you know, et Cetera. So, you know, probably the most extreme example of that would be, I was pulling on a vape pen and it was not a THC vape pen. It was one of those CBD pens. And you know, this was when river was eight he came up to me and he was like, Dad, can I, could I try that?


[00:37:21] Ben Greenfield: What is that? And I was like, well, it’s a vape pen. And I was like, if this was THC, I should tell you, like it will actually affect the gray matter in your brain. Like it’ll affect your neural development and it can make you stupid. Especially, you know, typically most evidence shows if you start to use this before you’re somewhere between about 18 and 21, it’ll really hurt your brain. And I told him this is CBD, it’s a little safer but it’s a vaporizer and then you suck at any, pull it into your lungs and helps you to relax and you want to try it. And he took one hit on the vape pen. He was like coughing for two hours and uh, you know, certainly didn’t enjoy the experience, but I guarantee he’s not going to go like, you know, no with exposures like that, he’s not going to go like out in the, the back behind the barn with his buddies one day and sneak some marijuana back there and get high and go do something stupid because it’s some forbidden element he’s never heard of or learned about in the proper set and setting.


[00:38:15] Jon Vroman: How much do you, on that train of thought, you know, you thinking about, um, yeah, you’re talking about the vape pen, right? Or alcohol, but what about like sex and, and other drugs hallucinogenics or things that they might be exposed to either online or with their friends. And I don’t know how accessible the friends are, but yeah,


[00:38:32] Ben Greenfield: Yeah, certainly. Uh, with sex, we talk very about sex in our household. They know when mom and dad are, you know, like we had a date the other night and like kids are like, wow, I was your day. I was like, it was, it was great. We went to the steak house, you know, it was like one of those, those dates where we did like an overnight in town. I told them, you know, we went to the steakhouse and then we played Texas hold’em and we had like this wonderful, like king suite rooms. We went to our room and we made love and we had an amazing time and we got up and we had breakfast and the like, we’re very open or you know, we’ll, we’ll tell our kids, you know, like on a Tuesday night or whatever, hey, you know, you guys, can you guys get into your pj’s tonight and take care putting yourselves to bed.


[00:39:13] Ben Greenfield: Mom and dad want to go in our bedroom and have a special time together and make love. So can you guys just kind of do your own thing tonight? So we’re very open about sex in our house and I’m also very open with my kids about teaching or about women. Like one of the books I’m going through with them right now is a way of the superior man in which they’re learning about the differences between the masculine and the feminine essence and how to approach women sexually and how to treat women physically. You know, and I’ll, I’ll certainly, you know, as they’re going forward in life and you’re getting into their teenage years, expose them to other books that teach them about, you know, things like, like, uh, oral sex and pleasure and contraception and, and all these things that I think are, I think it’s more important to be very open with a child about that kind of stuff.


[00:39:58] Ben Greenfield: Then to set it up as some kind of a forbidden fruit and have them learn about it from, you know, some, some porn website or a magazine or whatever. So with sex, we’re very open. Um, and again, take that love and logic educational, create no forbidden fruit type of approach with more recreational drugs or psychedelics when they’re 13. My kids will be going through their first rite of passage in which they’ll spend about a week under the supervision of a wilderness survival instructor who they’ve been training with already for about the past couple of years. And they’ll spend a week, you know, on their own with just a backpack and a wool blanket out in the middle of nowhere, just on their own, you know, fending for themselves, getting their own food and not having their, their brother not having books, not having any devices, but just basically being in a setting of silence and solitude and probably some element of fasting and then meditation in there and they’ll just basically be off on their own.


[00:40:54] Ben Greenfield: When they returned from that, we’ll have like a ceremony, right? There’ll be kind of a cutting of the cord. There’ll be this basically a ceremony in which they transitioned to manhood where they’re expected to do things like do a little bit more support of a family household with the money that they’re making from their businesses begin to provide for their own food. Began to, you know, save up for, for their own vehicle, you know, the car and, and basically begin to provide for themselves. But as part of that as well as part of the ceremony, they’ll also get exposed to their first kind of foray into disillusion of the ego, which I think is also important for, for finding yourself and for progressing into manhood or, or in some instances in womanhood. So that’ll be their first exposure to an ego dissolving substance. Most likely siliciden or marijuana.


[00:41:44] Ben Greenfield: I consider those to be the most natural of the substances versus synthetics like MTMA or ketamine or LSD. And they’ll actually in the proper set and setting with a journal and the right music and controlled format be brought through their first a psilocybin or marijuana experience with a slightly higher dosage to be able to experience that ego dissolution and be able to kind of cross that threshold responsibly as well. So I’m certainly not opposed to the use of those kinds of substances, especially in a controlled sentence setting. Even at an early age, a single time or an infrequent acute dosage of something like that is not going to be damaging to uh, to a growing individuals neuronal system or endocrine system compared to chronic repeated intermittent exposure, like getting high with your friends, you know, every Friday and Saturday night from the time you’re 14 until you’re 19 or something like that.


[00:42:39] Ben Greenfield: Do you use psilocybin currently on a routine basis for your personal gain benefit? Mental clarity? No. All occasionally microdose with psilocybin. Typically along with lion’s mane extract, sometimes a little bit of Blue Lotus extract, which enhances the DMT release from opinion of land and I will use that a lot of times for nature immersion, like a long hike with a journal, a or a long period of, of prayer or meditation or even occasionally something like colon tropic breath work. Usually just enough to engage the senses to enhance sensory perception a little bit. I’ve even used it for hunting just because your sense of smell, your sense of sight, your sense of feel tends to be slightly elevated with use of a substance like that. Pretty rare that I will actually take an acute, a psychedelic dose of Psilocybin or anything along those lines, but about three to four times a year I’ll do something like uh, like a higher dose ketamine journey or higher dose of LSD or a DMT derivative or higher dose of Siliciden.


[00:43:42] Ben Greenfield: You know, typically when I’m finding that I need to make some pretty big person or business breakthroughs and do some deep thinking that requires me to set aside my ego and to see things with kind of a merging of the left and right hemispheres of the brain and basically less kind of like logical self judging uh, thought patterns and all. Occasionally use a microdose of LSD for a hard day of writing because I found that it can assist quite a bit with a, again, probably because of the merging of the left and right hemispheres of the brain with that combination of creative and analytical thinking that’s required a lot of times and writing. My wife and I will sometimes use micro doses of ketamine and micro doses of marijuana, usually a THC strain for like a longer night of sex or a big date night, you know, where we’ll do something like intra-nasal ketamine with oxytocin and then like a little bit of THC thrown in just to enhance and heightened the sexual experience.


[00:44:38] Ben Greenfield: But yeah, I’m, I’m pretty careful with, with excess of hedonistic use of any of these substances. I think that infrequent, uh, you some of the proper set and setting for anything that’s of a significant dosage is a much better way to go versus, I guess I know a lot of people and kind of even in the fitness and health industry who are, you know, out doing big Iowasca trips and journeys, you know, Gosh, it seems like some people are doing these things like every, every month or once every couple of months, whereas I would on a maximum be doing something like that on a, on a quarterly basis. 


[00:45:10] Jon Vroman: Hey Ben, this is really, really been great man. Um, I know we’re up against the time that I think we had scheduled. Do you have availability for a couple more questions? 


[00:45:18] Ben Greenfield: Yeah, a couple of quick ones. I got about a got about five minutes here, so yeah.


[00:45:22] Jon Vroman: Okay. Couple of quick ones here. Um, so one is, I can only imagine that our guys are asking right now is I’m asking is how do you come up with your decisions on all these things? Like you’re like 13, they’re doing the rite of passage and this is what we’re doing here. Your, your confidence, your clarity is, it’s notable, right? So is it because you are so well read? Is it because you just are naturally a confident person? Is it, where is this coming from? Cause I think a lot of guys were like, I would like to be that certain about planned parenting strategy and style. 


[00:45:52] Ben Greenfield: Well, depends on the decision. When we’re talking about something like a rite of passage, we know from an ancestral standpoint, whether you’re looking at, uh, you know, the native American populations or, uh, any number of like sub Saharan African populations or you know, a few different like Indian or Middle Eastern populations or even the, the, the Jewish population for example, typically the right of passages, it takes place sometime between the age of about 13 and 15 years old, right?


[00:46:22] Ben Greenfield: So certainly some of this can be advised simply from an ancestral standpoint. When we look at something like the effect of certain substances on the human body, whether it’s gluten and lactose or whether it’s THC and alcohol, you know, a big part of that is simply, uh, you know, I have a master’s degree in physiology and hobbies. We spend a great deal of my time studying health and fitness. Usually the first couple hours of my day are spent just immersed in research and books and articles and, and just like learning about the human body. So a lot of that is just based on education and knowledge when it comes to the educational component. Again, a great deal of reading. You know, I have a master’s degree in education, so I took a great, great deal of developmental psychology, uh, you know, educational and educational statistics courses, things like that in university.


[00:47:09] Ben Greenfield: So I’m somewhat familiar with the way a baby learns and develops the way a child learns and develops, et Cetera. So I was lucky enough to have studied a lot of that stuff in university and then supplemented going forward with, you know, snatching up as many books as I can or could in the past couple of years, particularly on, you know, how a child learns and how should be structured and, and potential failures of the modern schooling system, et cetera. So I would say, you know, the short answer, probably the number one answer to your question would be, I’m just a, I’m a voracious student of life. I read a lot. I read almost a book every day and I’m just constantly immersed in this stuff. And, and I always, always look at things with a grain of salt through, uh, through a skeptical Lens. And typically if, if any claims are made about anything, I’m spending a great deal of time on pub med looking at the actual human clinical research data.


[00:48:01] Ben Greenfield: You know, if someone says, you know, just something simple and dumb, like, you know, you know what let’s say like a, Oh, like the carnivore diet, right? Like that’s very popular these days. If someone says like, oh, well curcumin is toxic to human cells, you know, it’s a built in plant defense mechanism of Tumeric. Therefore it is appropriate in the context of a carnivore diet to eliminate those types of built-in plant defense mechanisms. And then you go and pull up all the studies on curcumin and we’re talking about massive doses in vitro, meaning in a lab test tube on human cells, not in an in Vivo context inside the human body. Um, with heavy doses of curcumin in vitro, you showing some amount of toxicity to human cells at high dosages in vitro. I have a hard time saying, okay, I’m not gonna put Tumeric in a morning cup of coffee anymore, right? Because it’s, uh, it’s a foreign or different scenario. So you know, you always want to look at things skeptically too and actually delve into the, the actual scientific research behind claims being made about anything from, you know, education to physiology.


[00:49:05] Jon Vroman: Here’s the final question slash two which you can take this wherever you want. I wanted to ask final thought here about testing for kids. You do so much testing on yourself and you talk about this a lot. You talk about supplements, you have a company that specializes in this, right? So talk to that for just a second about hey, what should dads be thinking about when it comes to running blood tests for their kids? What should they be testing for supplements? And then, and then kind of the final thought here, and this can be your final answer, is just in general, we work with high performing guys, a lot of friends of yours, right? Guys that have been on the show, people that are in the mastermind talks community. You guys like that that we’re dealing with. Is there anything that they need to know as a kind of final thought? So take those two and run with it for the last 30 seconds.


[00:49:50] Ben Greenfield: The second part of your question, I think I’ve kind of covered a lot of that. You know like kind of love and logic approach and looking at things through skeptical lens and being responsible leader for your family, engaging your family and the spiritual disciplines, especially from an early age considering a rite of passage, especially for men who unlike women don’t have that distinct biological occurrence that that marks their passage into adulthood. But from the standpoint of testing, I think that blood and urine testing and things like that are not as beneficial and can be a little bit laborious and even disturbing for a young person to have to go on and you know, give blood, et cetera versus just a very simple genetic analysis of the snips that might predispose them to certain diseases later on in life. Like I know that my kids based on genetic testing don’t absorb vitamin D from sunlight.


[00:50:37] Ben Greenfield: They don’t produce adequate amounts of brain derived neurotrophic factor. They have a little bit poor response to a testosterone, particularly with respect to get it getting over rheumatize into estrogen. So I’m careful with things like, you know, they take a vitamin D supplement, they also consume lion’s mane tea at the beginning of the day to enhance their brain derived neurotrophic factor consumption. And they also do a little bit of sauna and a little bit of exercise to help with that. Even more. They, uh, I’m, I’m careful with their exposure to things like household cleaning, chemicals, drinking out of plastic bottles, et cetera. Like once you get a genetic analysis that shows predisposition to certain diseases, you can take steps to make sure that you nip that in the bud. So I think just the basic salivary genetic tests for the right number of snips, we shouldn’t be like 23 and me or ancestry foundation, but it’d be something more like, well, I had them tested with, uh, with the DNA company up in Canada, for example, out of Toronto. Uh, actually have a podcast on that. We’ll be releasing very soon on my show at uh, to get a little be Ben Greenfield, podcast where I kind of cover the different snips that you can test, et cetera. Or if you go to my website and do a search for DNA testing and you could find some resources I provided on that. But I think of all the data just a basic, this is best.


[00:52:01] Jon Vroman: I think that, you know, it’s a shame. We had Sachin Patel come in to our dad,last dad’s retreat and he talked a little bit about DNA testing and I think the company might be the same one


[00:52:13] Ben Greenfield: He’s involved with that company. Yeah, the same company.


[00:52:15] Jon Vroman: Yup. That’s cool. A number of our guys did that and they’ve set up something for our dads on that. So I would highly recommend they check out your show and dig in a little more cause we’ll have a special deal for them on that, which is great. Hey Ben, I want to be really respectful of your time here and you’ve given a little more than a than you agreed to. So for that man, I’m super grateful and thanks for bestowing your wisdom upon the group and it gives us something to think about your man and I hope that we can continue to add value to your world. I’m a big fan of your show and your work and so the world is definitely a better place with you in it man and the Vroman family as a better family because of the influence that you’ve had on me and the leadership that I’ve been able to provide for my family as a result. So thanks for arming me with some great information and dedicating your life to, you know, curating that ancestral wisdom in that modern day technology. Man, it’s really inspiring what you’re doing. A lot of my friends who are close with you have been telling me for years that like you got to get to know Ben Cause he’s up to some really interesting things and you thinking out of the box and being creative and bold in your approach to life is certainly inspiring to me. So thank you for that.


[00:53:18] Ben Greenfield: Cool man. Thanks for having me on. I’m honored.


[00:53:21] Jon Vroman: All right, talk soon.


[00:53:23] Ben Greenfield: Aiyt. Later.

[00:53:26] Jon Vroman: Hey guys, if you haven’t already done so, go right now to front row and join the conversation that’s happening right now on line. We designed this group for guys who are entrepreneurial in their thinking that are high performing guys with low egos. We’re looking for the dads that believe in teaching their kids how to think, solve problems and be real leaders. We’re looking for guys who believe in being family, men with businesses, not businessmen with families. We’re looking for the fathers who have great knowledge but also believe that they have so much more to learn and we’re looking for men who want to add value by sharing their wisdom and those that are willing to ask the questions that we all need and want answers to. That’s front row or simply go to Facebook, type in front row dads and you’ll get to our group and what we put in there, links to all the podcasts and videos and other resources that you can’t get access to anywhere else except for in this group. We want to give you the best ideas to help you with your marriage, balancing work and family life communication strategies with your spouse and also your children, travel ideas and even suggestions on the latest gear that would save you time and help you be more effective. We’ve got updates on upcoming events and so much more. Go right now to front row and join the conversation. I’ll look forward to connecting with you there.



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