Join The Brotherhood

Join the Front Row Dads private Facebook community so you can ask questions, share ideas, and be part of a supportive group of incredible brothers who help one another navigate the role of marriage and fatherhood.

Leave A Review

If you’ve listened to multiple Front Row Dads interviews and get value from the show, we’d love your support! Leaving us a review on Apple Podcasts only takes a minute, and in turn, it allows us to rank higher and become discovered by other Dads, just like you. Visit FrontRowDads.com/review and tell others what you think about the show!

Read the Transcript
[read more]

Disclaimer: The transcription you’re about to read was produced digitally. It’s 95% accurate, however at times, the system interprets words incorrectly, so if you’re shrugging your shoulders saying, “What the heck?” — just skip that word/sentence and read on 🙂 Thanks and happy reading!

[00:00:00] Tatyana Vroman: The intent I think is hearing each other’s intentions for the day and knowing each other’s intentions, we can support each other in, you know, getting it done and then when we huddle again at night we can talk about did we hit those goals and then if we did them, when we can celebrate it together. That to me, that’s the intent. So, bringing us together as a family. So, you know, Jon’s goals are my goals.

[00:00:25] Jon Vroman: Alright guys, welcome to the Front Row Dads podcast. And, uh, if you’re here for the first time, I’m your host Jon Vroman. Today, I am joined by my beautiful wife Tatyana. And if you’re listening to this, we’re actually recording a video and we’re not in some fancy studio that has all the different mic hooks up. So, we’re going to actually share one mic today and we’re going to have a conversation about what’s going on inside the Vroman House. And this show is actually inspired by one of our listeners who had said, hey, I’d love to hear you and Tatyana have a conversation sometime about family life. And I think it’s actually perfectly fitting that it is, uh, we’re looking at the clock right now and I have a call in 25 minutes. We’ve been trying to record this podcast since this morning about 8:00 AM and have failed several times. We had to take a moment just a second ago to sit on the couch and just kind of calm our energy and to recenter because there’s so much going on.

[00:01:22] Jon Vroman: Um, today is a very full day, but I want to thank my gorgeous wife here, for joining me on the show. And, um, we’re gonna talk about what’s going on. So, first of all, welcome to your first Front Row Dads Podcast interview.

[00:01:36] Tatyana Vroman: Thank you. Hello everybody.

[00:01:38] Jon Vroman: [laughing] Um, so here’s what we’re gonna do, guys. We’re gonna start by talking about what’s going great in the house. And by the way, we have no problem talking about what’s not going well. But I also think that I should say, and I also believe that focusing on what’s right is an opportunity to share best practices, which is equally, if not arguably more important than sharing what’s wrong. Because when it’s going right, we found solution, we found things that are working, and we want to tell you those things. But trust me, there’s a lot going in the wrong direction it feels that time. Would you agree with that?

[00:02:13] Tatyana Vroman: Positive inquiry, Jon Bergoff.

[00:02:16] Jon Vroman: Positive inquiry, great! Appreciative inquiry. So, here’s what we’re going to start. [inaudible] Appreciative inquiry. Yeah, but that is positive. It’s a strengths-based inquisition, right, of what’s going great. These are our notes from today and we’re going to talk about a few of these things. And we wanted to start off by talking about us, the two of us. And we’ve been working on us, well for 13 years, [laughing] but even more so I think intensely over the last couple of years. And as I’ve shared with the guys multiple times that we’ve gone through a couple of rough patches, like one or two, one or two.

[00:02:49] Tatyana Vroman: Fine.

[00:02:49] Jon Vroman: Just one, I mean one rough patch. Um, but we, we’ve learned a lot through those difficult times. And so, I want to talk about some of the things. And when I say us, I’m not talking just about, I’m not talking just our marriage, but like the Vroman family. So, do you want to start off by talking about what, what do you think is great? Tatyana Vroman everybody.

[00:03:12] Tatyana Vroman: Um, we quit drinking coffee one week ago.

[00:03:14] Jon Vroman: Wohoo! We got tea.

[00:03:16] Tatyana Vroman: Green tea.

[00:03:17] Jon Vroman: Green tea.

[00:03:18] Tatyana Vroman: They’re proud of us. So, currently we’re not addicted to anything except for love.

[00:03:25] Jon Vroman: [laughing] Why do we quit coffee?

[00:03:27] Tatyana Vroman: Well, just because there’s more evidence for that. It’s not good for us then that it’s bad for us. And um, if I was still out, be honest with myself and listen to my body, I feel dehydrated. The ups and downs are just too much for me to handle and you know, wake up, in a horrible mood until I have a cup of coffee and just all this signs is just, they’re just not, not balanced, not, it’s that doesn’t scream health to me. When you wake up when you like leave me alone, I need a cup of coffee not good. So, um, we substituted now for, you know, green drink and the organify and green tea, and it’s really, really good.

[00:04:08] Jon Vroman: I’ve personally noticed, and I don’t know if you have too, but, and I don’t want to admit this because I love coffee, right? [inaudible] And I crave like I go to bed dreaming about that Morning Cup of coffee. But I do feel also more in control of my emotions when I don’t have like the jittery adrenaline boosting cortisol, releasing coffee in my flooding, my veins, I feel more in control and emotional mastery is one of our pillars. So, I think that’s been a good thing. What about our morning circle? [inaudible]. I know there’s, there’s a wind and there’s also a failure there, but talk about that a little bit.

[00:04:44] Tatyana Vroman: So, so it’s a really good idea. And I do go to sleep like excited about the morning circle next morning because you have some reasons to teach kids to, to plan your day, to talk about what we’re gonna do and what we’re excited about doing. And then there is also gathering everybody at first thing in the morning and um, and that we have felt more times than that we’ve done it because Ocean is totally not into it. He’s five obviously. And then Tiger is not into it at all. Although, it feels like you should be into it. [laughing]. So, the only one thing into it, is Jon and I, and we can pull us up together because we just quit drinking coffee. [laughing] You know, we’re just pretty, [laughing] things are pretty hard in the morning. Yeah.

[00:05:34] Jon Vroman: What’s the spirit of it? What’s the goal? What’s the intent?

[00:05:37] Tatyana Vroman: The intent I think is hearing each other’s intentions for the day and knowing each other’s intentions, we can support each other in, you know, getting it done and then when we huddle again at night we can talk about did we hit those goals and then if we did them, when we can celebrate it together. And that to me that’s the intent, so bringing us together as a family. So, you know, Jon’s goals are my goals and that’s first of all. And then of course teaching kids that the importance of setting intentions and goals first thing.

[00:06:10] Jon Vroman: Yeah. I thought that this morning circle idea of getting everybody together, getting on the same page and we’ve experimented with different ideas behind that. Like Monday was map it out Monday. We talk about the whole week as a family and Friday would be this follow-up Friday where we’d ask how did the week go? And then each of the days of the week, we, each person, so me, you and Tiger would take a lead on that day. That was the intent and so far, where it’s what’s happened. And so, there’s always that, hey, what’s ideal? And what actually happens is that we have sat down several times and we have talked about, hey, what’s going on today? And if that’s all that happens, I feel like that’s a big victory. Do you? Yeah.

[00:06:50] Tatyana Vroman: Yeah. And we’re not giving up. I think we’re gonna keep trying until the kids will just realize that this is not going anywhere. And you know, it might as well start participating.

[00:07:00] Jon Vroman: And I think it’s also, [inaudible] I think it’s also a great strategy for people who are finding it difficult to connect in the evening around dinner. Because sometimes with sports and all the things that are happening, it’s, you know, and even from an energy level, you might say you’re more tired in the morning, but there’s also an alertness. There’s a focus, there’s a, hey, the day is still ahead of you, which is a really great time to meet up and huddle up and figure out what’s next. So that’s been cool. Let’s talk about traveling a little bit. Something you said recently that I thought it was a good victory was we were on the road for three weeks and we were in Ohio for the Front Row Foundation Summit. We had a week vacation with our extended family, with my Mom and Dad and sister and niece, and then also right into fam moments, which was an amazing event. But when all that was done, we were coming home. You had said something about how much you love coming home. Can you speak to that for a minute?

[00:07:53] Tatyana Vroman: Um, I don’t know. What did I say exactly? Well, it’s just, it feels so good to know that what you have build is so good, to that Monday through Friday is actually my favorite time.

[00:08:06] Jon Vroman: That’s what you said. Yeah.

[00:08:07] Tatyana Vroman: And you know, there’s a beauty in mundane and I think we’re so blessed that our mundane is so sweet. I love our routines. I love our progresses. I love us together. It’s, it’s really good. And I think it has a lot to do with finding the right place to live. And for us it is Austin. We came here three years ago, and things just started unraveling it’s just, and I believe it’s, you know, the energy of the city and the people that we found, it’s just all matches us so well. When we’re in New Jersey, we were stuck. I felt stuck. Right. And it’s good. So, if you feel stuck, keep looking for that right place that, that will support you and who will help you open up.

[00:08:55] Jon Vroman: I think it’s a beautiful thing to love your life so much that when you’re on quote and quote vacation that you can’t wait to get back home. And that’s, I thought that was just such a sweet thing you said. And I agreed with that 100%. What is it about, we didn’t talk about this, you didn’t prep for this at all, but like what is it about your routine specifically that you love? Like, what is it specifically about our house, our neighborhood, Austin, your routine, what you do every day that you are in love with? And even the little things like you’d be the tiniest little things like I’m thinking about the obvious one is your bed. Because sometimes when you travel and you come home and you’re like, oh my bed. Right? Or being able to set the temperature of your house where you want it. [inaudible] Those are little things.

[00:09:36] Tatyana Vroman: I don’t care about stuff like that. I can sleep anywhere as long as it’s warm, I’m okay. But I think it’s because our routines are all concentrated on growth. We are with all that we do, we are trying to better ourselves. You know, it’s like every meal we do is thought through and you know in time and the sound is very intentional and the workouts and you know, then the people that we choose to spend time with, it’s, those are the very carefully selected, very special people that we feel so blessed to be around. So, I think it’s just so by design, that’s why it feels so good to be here. Like none of it is accidental.

[00:10:17] Jon Vroman: Yeah. And the thing that I want to appreciate also when we say that is that there’s certainly seasons of life where you may be in a position right now where there are certain things in your world that you can’t design right now because of, I don’t know, whatever circumstances you might find yourself in. And so, I know that I was speaking for Tatyana when we say this together is that respectfully there are seasons of life and sometimes, you’re in a cold, dark, winter season where it feels like nothing’s going your way. I’m sure you felt that way literally and figuratively in New Jersey where when we were living there it was not a life by design for Tatyana and there were, that was really affecting you and it was affecting our ability to connect together and to lead as parents. And so, you know, it’s not always ideal. And then there are times when you get a chance to make decisions.

[00:11:09] Jon Vroman: Bold moves. And I kind of argued against moving to Austin initially because it just didn’t feel like the right time, we were putting out the Front Row Factor Book and it just felt like there’s so much going on and Tatyana really moved that forward in such a positive way. I’m so grateful for that. So anyway, I just wanted to say that if you’re out there and you’re in a season where you are living a life by design, hey props or you know you deserve credit and recognition for designing and getting that. And if you’re in a place where you feel like you’re a little handcuffed or that uh, you’re not in a place to be able to make certain decisions, hang in there, seek support in that space of life. Cause sometimes it’s just not going your way. Life’s throwing you curve balls, you’re dealing with massive challenges and those are real, you know, somebody out there listening right now knows somebody who just got diagnosed with a life-threatening illness.

[00:11:54] Jon Vroman: That’s a very real thing. It’s uh, your world can be turned upside down in a moment. So, it’s important to both honor and recognize the struggles and it’s also good to celebrate the victories and there’s certainly nothing wrong with celebrating when things go well. You want that in your life, and you want that for other people, but you also want to be sensitive to the fact that it doesn’t go well for everybody at all times. Let’s switch gears a little bit. There was a quite a few things I want to ask you about. I want to talk about Russia. So, Tatyana, a little preppier is that in case you are new to the podcast or started listening, Tatyana grew up in a town called Krasnodar skin Siberia, left right around 17? Yeah, and moved to the states, went to the University of Georgia in Athens and that was your introduction to the U.S. and then eventually ended up following a guy to New Jersey and thank God you guys didn’t work out.

[00:12:43] Jon Vroman: And, uh, we met and that was 13 years ago, which is really cool. But you go back to Russia almost every year. We’ve missed a few. And there’s been times when Tatyana has gone solo and there’s times when you’ve taken the kids, you’ve taken the kids more than I. And I think that’s great because both kids are bilingual, so they’re fluent in Russian, which is great. And, but you’re going back again this time solo. Tell everybody about that trip. How excited are you? Why do you go back? What’s important about that to you? Because I think that’s important, by the way, for our whole family, and I can speak to how it impacts me and the boys, but you speak to perhaps how it impacts you.

[00:13:18] Tatyana Vroman: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I am sad that I’m not taking boys honestly, because it is, that trip is a gift for them as much as it is for me. And, and seeing them just being submerged in the Russian language, in it, in a different culture, big city, and all the relatives that they only get to see once a year that you know, adore them. And the little cousins, because my mom had seven brothers and sisters, so there’s an abundance of aunts and uncles and cousins. And then of course them that the Russian language comes back to that to then they start speaking so much better when they’re there. That feels really good. But you know, from the point of view of connecting with the people in Russia in two weeks without the kids, it’s probably going to be just as much as if I went look kids for six weeks.

[00:14:07] Tatyana Vroman: Right? Because when I’m there with kids, I ended up doing a lot of kids’ stuff and then my, you know, older aunts and uncles can’t really keep up. So this time going solo, it’s going to be just a focus time with my relatives, with elder and you know, good friends. And I’m really looking forward to this time. I am one of those moms that I need a break from my children and when I leave I feel very good about leaving. Um, I don’t, I don’t look back. I don’t feel worried. I feel like my children, I am good place. And I also honor Jon for stepping up when I’m gone and taking over because you know, then he has to work and make lunches and do the homework and entertain them and love them and to call them. So, um, and he does it so well. He does it so well. Well maybe the teeth don’t get brushed as well as I like to that. That bothers me a lot. But you know, he pretty much rocks. Yeah. So thank you. That’s it’s really sweet that you often do that, so special. Thank you.

[00:15:07] Jon Vroman: Love you. I would also add that the first time Tatyana went to Russia by herself, I remember sitting down and she’s like, Hey, you know, I have a relative that’s not doing well from a health perspective and I really feel the need to go back. And I said, hey, no problem. You know, go. And I said, how long are you thinking about going for it? And she said, two weeks. And I remember looking like, I looked confident, I’m sure. I’m like, yeah, of course. But inside I was going, uhh! what, two weeks? Like I don’t know if I could live for two weeks without you and yet it was, I remember a couple of emotions around that. One is when you left, I had this deep sense of, you know sometimes let me say this, sometimes you can’t wait for somebody to leave cause you think they’re the cause of all your problems or whatever and blame the person.

[00:15:54] Jon Vroman: But then the minute you left I was like there is a void. There is a massive void in our life. There’s a massive void in our house and it was painful when you left. And certainly, I needed to up my game. I needed a, I needed to step up what I was doing. Cause you do a lot around the house with the boys in our life. You do a lot. And in this particular case two weeks went by and I was so grateful that you work on because I missed you. And that’s a good thing because I got time with the boys in a way that I’ve never gotten time with the boys. I got a deeper sense of appreciation for what you do. There was a hundred reasons why it was the best thing ever. I remember telling the Front Row Dads in our, you know, when we were, we were chatting about the whole thing.

[00:16:35] Jon Vroman: I was, I was telling everybody, I was like, this is the best thing ever for me, for our kids, for you. So, everybody needs time away. Everybody needs space. The Dad needs space, the mom needs space. Even kids need space. Everybody, you know, life is a Sear. It’s a flow of whether it’s ups or downs or in and out or whatever it is. It’s always a breathing, you know, the breath of life, which is you’ve got to get close to somebody and you’ve got to get distance from that person and that together and getting apart and getting together and getting apart is the breath of life. You know? I think that’s really what it is and that’s the rhythm that we need to be in and whatever is right for you, you know, each family out there, how much time you depart and together that‘s also you got to figure out, that’s it. The ingredients that go into making a recipe that works for you guys.

[00:17:21] Tatyana Vroman: This time it’s working out really well because I come back being gone for two weeks in Russia and then I think literally next day you leave for a 10-day silent retreat.

[00:17:31] Jon Vroman: Yeah.

[00:17:32] Tatyana Vroman: So.

[00:17:32] Jon Vroman: Yeah.

[00:17:33] Tatyana Vroman: So the timing is very interesting.

[00:17:35] Jon Vroman: I feel like we’re definitely going to miss each other.

[00:17:37] Tatyana Vroman: Oh yeah.

[00:17:38] Jon Vroman: That’s a long time. I don’t know if we’ve ever done it, have we done that? Well, you went to Russia with the boys for a couple months[inaudible] one time. Anyway, so that’s a big thing. Let’s talk about some of these other things. We made notes of house hunting. I wanted to talk to you about that because we’re in a place of thinking about our home and I feel like that’s going great. Although we don’t have a lot of clarity, so this isn’t a, hey, we got it all figured out, but we moved to Austin. We decided to rent for a little while to get to know the area and decide where we wanted to be, but like what are you excited about when it comes to the house? Talk about that for a moment. You know, where are we with that?

[00:18:10] Tatyana Vroman: Hmmm, I don’t know. I’m not so very excited about it actually because sounds like a lot of work too and yeah, I’m not much really excited. [laughing].

[00:18:17] Jon Vroman: Maybe then the question is like, maybe you share with the guys what’s going through your mind right now about where to buy, what to buy. Like there’s a lot of questions to be like maybe you could even articulate what questions you’re wrestling with when it comes to the house. Like maybe even talk about the idea of the home with the tiny homes and then how far we live away from the city and right all those things.

[00:18:40] Tatyana Vroman: Yeah. That’s why this is not very exciting because there’s so many questions and the formula is not solved right now between in a way we want it to be in what school and how close to downtown and how much land and it’s just, it’s just really old. It’s a lot to consider. It’s overwhelming. I even consider it moving out like half an hour away from town and buying like a five acre is it cold acres.

[00:19:09] Jon Vroman: Yeah.

[00:19:10] Tatyana Vroman: Five acres land and then putting the tiny homes on it and turn it into like a small tiny home community and then renting it out to people. So, but still I’m excited about that idea, but I’m realizing that um, you know, not a good timing. So, I’m going to put it on uh, maybe, uh, four or five years from now. I will, I’ll revisit that. Yeah. No, it’s good. It’s all really good problem I feel so bless.

[00:19:34] Jon Vroman: Yeah. And I think that the value, by the way, for anybody listening is that, you know, in the conversation of where do you live, there’s the questions of what do you value, [inaudible]. right? It’s what do you value? And the conversation that we’re into right now is, all right, you got seven days out of the week, let’s say, and what do you do all seven days of the week? How many days of the week are you in the city? Right? How close do we need to be there? How many days of the week are you at the gym and where and what gym do you love? How many days of the week do you want to be in nature or on a trail or at the grocery store or whatever it would be, and thinking about that, where do your friends live and how often are you going to see them?

[00:20:10] Jon Vroman: Right? So, what about the school? What do you value about that school? All those questions are value questions. And then, and then there’s, you know, where do you want that house to be? And of course, there’s the question of the value of home, right? Like how much do you want to spend? Should your life be built around, hey, drive live in the best house in the best neighborhood possible for you and your family. Drive the least expensive cars perhaps. Right? Invest your money there. But then again, sometimes it’s like you, you know, there are people that we know that have a lot, a lot of money and don’t want to buy into the biggest house, the best neighborhood per se. We’re the most valuable neighborhood from a dollars perspective. Because they don’t want that much wealth in their kids’ lives. Right. There’s so much to be considered around that.

[00:20:52] Tatyana Vroman: Can I do believe that?

[00:20:52] Jon Vroman: Yeah. Well, I was thinking about my, my buddy, uh, Justin, we’ve had that conversation. So Justin lives in a beautiful home, but he could live in a house that’s two or three or four times that value. I talked about it on, um, there’s a show, by the way, guys, uh, I can’t remember what we titled it, but it’s like [inaudible] its. Anyway, I’ll, I’ll make note perhaps in the show notes, but David Osborne was on our show and David lives in a very nice neighborhood, but David could live in a house that’s much, much bigger or more valuable, but chooses not to because he values community more than anything else. So I think there’s a lot of that that’s to be said about how something, but it’s created a lot of really interesting dialogue for us around what do we value, where do we want to be, you know, and what’s important to us, which I think is a really valuable conversation. So I’m excited to see what happens. I feel like we need a pool. That’s what I feel wherever we go. I think we need a pool that’s I think is a high priority, but we’ll see.

[00:21:47] Tatyana Vroman: The best pool is your friend’s pool.

[00:21:48] Jon Vroman: The best pool is your friend’s pool.

[00:21:51] Jon Vroman: Hey guys, I want to take a second to tell you about our Front Row Dads Retreat. If you would value connecting with a brotherhood of likeminded and lighthearted guys who want to deepen their sense of purpose and meaning as fathers and within their families and to talk about and share the best practices and the strategies for ultimate family success, then this event might be for you. If you’d value being around high performing guys without the big egos. Guys that believes in being family men with businesses and not businessmen with families. You might enjoy our Front Row Dads retreat. Twice a year we’re getting together in person, small groups, cool locations, guest experts and so much more for these events. We’ve now done this multiple times. It has sold out every single time and if you’re excited about it, makes sure to check it out at frontrowdads.com where you can apply for the next retreat.

[00:22:42] Jon Vroman: Now, hey, one of the things you might be wondering is, does leaving my family make me a better dad or husband? The answer is for many of you, I know you travel a bunch, you do other things and the idea for this one is you have to retreat to advance. You have to take a step back to gain that perspective so that we can go back and crush it within our families. This is the same concept that works in business where you take a moment, you think, you plan, you strategize, you work on your family so that you can be better in your family. If that all sounds good, check it out frontrowdads.com

[00:23:10] [instrumental]

[00:23:12] Jon Vroman: All right, next thing, let’s talk a little bit about the boys who may be coming in any moment now. I can hear them. That’d be cool if we got a surprise from the boys. And let me, if they do interrupt by the way, which should be a welcomed interruption, we’ll bring them on to the mic. Let’s talk about Tiger and Ocean. And so for anybody who’s just started listening to our show, our boys Tiger is 10, Ocean is four alright going on five here, almost five in a couple of months. But let’s talk a little bit about school for them and what we’re learning and what’s going well as it relates to let’s say Tiger and how we’re getting really involved in his education. And let’s talk a little bit about Mary’s and why we chose to keep him there. Cause how we’re seeing our boys thrive. Can you comment on that a little bit?

[00:23:57] Tatyana Vroman: Sure. Ocean is turning five in October and he is old boy, lots of energy, lots of passion, very passionate about what he wants to do and, uh, very resistant to doing what he doesn’t want to do and which all feels really age appropriate and feels right because he’s just all spirit right now. So, in our opinion, putting him in a system that would be, you know, forcing him to sit down and learn how to write his name and count and, you know, write letters would be forcing him to be something he’s not. And then he would be resistant to it and he would be destructive to the rest of the kids. You know, that, that want to do that stuff. They’re into it. And then this is how, you know, the labeling comes in, you know, you’re not good enough. You’re destructive. You’re too rowdy. You get sent to the back of the room.

[00:24:52] Tatyana Vroman: And, um, and that’s what happened to me. And that’s what happens to, to, you know, a lot of energetic people, passionate people, and it just, the, the, the, for that somebody is forced them to, into academics way too early. So I’m so, so proud of us too, you know, intentionally keeping him away from, from an academic education and just giving him the space to just roam and do whatever the heck he wants. And I feel like, you know, until we see the signs that he is interested in learning, uh, we should not be forcing him into anything.

[00:25:28] Jon Vroman: Yeah. And I think that, you know, for me there’s a lot of strong opinions obviously around education and kids and I think that what we’ve determined in the Brotherhood, you know, in our conversations is that you really just have to pay attention to each child and see where they thrive. I mean, the biggest thing is it’s not an argument about whether or not it’s public or private or Montessori or Waldorf for any of those things. It’s a conversation about where does your child thrive, right? Where does your child learn the values that you feel are important? You don’t want to mold your child into the person that you think they need to be, but you do want to pass along or help create a space where some important values can be given. Like, oh, I was just in an event a couple of days ago and Ryan Moran, who runs a conference called this, the capitalism conference, capitalism.com I think is the site.

[00:26:19] Jon Vroman: But Ryan was talking about how somebody asked him if he was, how he felt about as kids being entrepreneurs and he goes, I don’t care if my kids become entrepreneurs. Like I just want my kids to be the best versions of themselves. Like in fact there’s reasons why you don’t want to be an entrepreneur as much as there are reasons why you do. It’s not about that. It’s about now there are there certain skills that an entrepreneur might develop, certain values that are important for all people could benefit from that. Sure. That cross pollination of values from one way of being to another, one way of doing life. But what we’ve seen in Ocean’s specifically and on Tiger is paying or what we notice or paying attention to the environments where they thrive and I think that’s why Ocean ends up at Mary’s and why Tiger, you know, we’re in a period right now of shifting his environment to create a place where he could thrive. Did you talk about, and I don’t want to switch directions if you have more on that, but do you want to talk about for a moment like what’s happening with Tiger with our involvement with math and reading and the progress that we’re seeing?

[00:27:15] Tatyana Vroman: Yeah. Well that’s final thing that I’m really very proud of us. Oh, of you really for the, what’s it’s been about two months now that Johny consistently works with Tiger on math and um, you know, and then there’s reading time afterwards. So they spend about half an hour a day, sometimes more. And what we have noticed is that when, before we started it, we were a little sad to see that Tigers knowledge of math, is where he thought he should be academically. And what she was is absolutely it doesn’t match. And it’s because we were too relaxed last year. We kind of took the teacher’s words that he’s just where he needs to be and we would, we didn’t want to deal with homework. So, we’re like, where whatever is fine. Uh, he seems happy. And then once we started paying attention, we realize that he is, you know, he’s behind, I and I hate towards it to use that word, but he should probably know his time table, but by the time he’s 10 so, and then we realized that it has really nothing to do with academics or his, you know, like talent for math.

[00:28:25] Tatyana Vroman: But it has so much to do with like the muscle of focus is just not develop. Like for him it’s so, so difficult to sit down and self-motivate and then focus for the amount of time doing something he doesn’t want to do. Right. If he’s super passionate about something, doing something, he’s absolutely will spend time on it. But to do something that that we are asking him to do, he needs to do, he is so resistant. So we got committed to developing that muscle with him of doing something he doesn’t want to do because it’s needed to be done.

[00:28:57] Jon Vroman: The thing that we’ve been talking about a lot lately is that, and we talked to Tiger about this all the time, is that it’s not about whether or not he has the ability to do math. Like if he knows because he’s going to live in a world where any Siri or Alexa can answer any math problem. Alexa just perked up, uh, and any math problem can be done very easily, right. So I’m not concerned that he’s not going to find a way in life to be able to add these two numbers. But what I explained to him is that I’m interested in him learning how to learn that the process of learning something new is what we’re chasing and the development or exercising his brain is what we’re chasing. Not that he’ll be able to know all elements of Algebra or Calculus for the rest of his life, but like

[00:29:43] Tatyana Vroman: Having his will.

[00:29:44] Jon Vroman: Yeah. His,

[00:29:45] Tatyana Vroman: His will

[00:29:46] Jon Vroman: And, and, and motivation and just finding a way to set a goal and get something done. So that’s what we’ve been chasing with the boys lately. That’s what I’m obsessed with is how do we make this fun? He said something to me really cool the other day. He says, cause we’re doing flashcards and and perhaps also that Jocko Willink who has The Way of the Warrior Kid book. That’s an excellent book. And in that book Jocko talks about how to learn things and he talks about flashcards and he talks about, you know, there’s a strategy there. The one that we’re using right now is, hey! he, he does the flash cards, we moved the ones he knows to one pile and the ones he doesn’t know to another pile. And he’s so excited to get through the pile where he gets all the numbers and each day he’s getting a little bit stronger and stronger. And last night he was going to bed and he said to me, he goes, I can’t wait to wake up in the morning and do flashcards. That that’s a victory. That’s a huge victory. Right? And you could see the, the pride.

[00:30:36] Tatyana Vroman: Well it’s also…

[00:30:37] Jon Vroman: Forming.

[00:30:38] Tatyana Vroman: It’s also the flashcards that I think part of the reason why it’s working so well is because it’s a group activity, you know, and he’s a social kid. Like for him, he loves connecting. So flashcards is a way of him just spending time with Papa and then you know, seeing papa being proud of him for getting the right answers. So that is working towards his strength or what. Right.

[00:31:01] Jon Vroman: Yeah. And on that note, let’s use that as a great transition to go talk about, cause you just talked about strengths. It’s, let’s talk about what happened at Fam Bundance this last week. So quick pitch on so everybody knows what we’re talking about. So, one of my Front Row Dads, one of our lifetime members and an amazing friend, Mike McCarthy and his incredibly talented and amazingly fun wife, Lindsey. They have an incredible family. I’m in such admiration of how they go after life in the Go Bundance Community and the Fam Bundance Community, they call that Grabbing Life Big. It’s such a cool group of people. We had the privilege of spending three days with these families that all gathered together from all over the U.S and essentially the goal is how can we do life together, learn together, have fun together, laugh together. There was music, there was drums with our buddy Solomon Masala.

[00:31:54] Jon Vroman: There was a time when we were able to work on our values. There were time we were out on the boat swimming on the lake. There’s zip lining and there was all sorts of stuff, right? It was a really incredible event from start to finish. Brother James was playing music there. And by the way, if you don’t know brother James Music, you want to go check that out on Spotify because it’s all positive affirmations. And so it’s an incredible event and all these people have gathered together and one of the things that we did is Mike McCarthy walked us through this incredible exercise of determining our family values. And in order to determine your family values, oftentimes you need to look back and say, where have we been at our best? What were the experiences in our life when we as a family felt that we were in flow state, that we were operating at our best and there was this one moment and maybe you could talk a little bit about this, but the moment where we were able to pour into Tiger talking about his strengths. [inaudible] I have a lot of thoughts on that, but I’d love to hear like what, what do you think about that particular part? Because I think this is a valuable takeaway for all the dads out there. This isn’t the you could do with your kids today. You could do this with your wife today. You can do this with anybody. You can do this with your employees right today or a friend. This is a strength acknowledgement. What do you remember about that?

[00:33:05] Tatyana Vroman: Well, the exercise was that Mike gave us, one of them was go in a circle and focus on each other’s strengths. So talk about what you think is your strength and what happened with us. Uh, Tiger, Jon and I is, we just put all the focus on Tiger and just poured all the love into him. And you know, we, we were writing what we love about what his strengths are and wrote in post notes and just putting it on the billboard, what is it called? [inaudible] No, no, what is it called? The, the Whiteboard, whatever. And so the whiteboard was uncovered with all the posted notes that were the great things about Tiger, he was just grinning from ear to ear and you know, also getting all shy saying, okay, okay, okay, [inaudible] well maybe,

[00:33:50] Jon Vroman: That’s about me. [inaudible]

[00:33:50] Tatyana Vroman: Yeah, we’ll get, can we now talk about what good about you papa? And it just felt so good and it felt so right because sometimes we just forget to focus on the strengths.

[00:34:02] Tatyana Vroman: And ironically, just a couple of days ago, I was talking to Tracy Osborne who mentioned the book that she’s reading and the book is, you know, Catch Your Kid Doing The Right Thing and really acknowledge that. Or even if he’s not doing anything right, but he’s just not doing anything wrong. Acknowledging that. So just pour the love into him and build him up on all the things he’s doing great. And then I got on a car, uh, leaving her house and then I saw a on Blinkist I saw the same idea of the book only for grownups and leaders. How, you know, you build up your team by catching them doing the right thing and then realize that that’s definitely a sign from above. I need to be doing a ton of that with my children and probably some of that Jon, too. And then I realized that how well it works in the, in Chinese, like really he’s smooth to operate when it comes to that like, I will notice you drop those things on me and I’m like, ah, I know what he’s doing right now. He’s doing all this positive affirmation but in what? Like, but it feels good unfortunately me to want to do the right thing. So, so that works. [inaudible]

[00:35:16] Tatyana Vroman: It works. It works. Tell your kids about the strengths and tell them a lot.

[00:35:21] Jon Vroman: Can you tell the guys about Blinkist real quick?

[00:35:23] Tatyana Vroman: Oh yeah, it’s really cool thing. So, I think the hundred dollars a year subscription and it’s a hundreds and hundreds of books and all of them are in personal development and it’s like, you know, main ideas. Oh, you can either read it or you can listen to it too. So, you can listen to a book on average in five minutes, which is, you know, kind of cool because you just, sometimes I will find myself reading a whole book and only grabbing like two main ideas from it. So, the Blinkist just doing it for you. They just like scoop up the big ideas and yeah, it’s good. It’s good.

[00:36:01] Jon Vroman: Book summaries on your phone and thanks to a thanks to our good friend Hal Elrod for introducing me to that app. Yeah, it was totally killer and Blinkist by the way, just did a big round of fundraising. Millions and millions of dollars. They’re just crushing it. So, great, great system. We’re going to start doing things like that in our members community, for our brotherhood, for the guys who are part of the Brotherhood, uh, and get access to a private membership area. We’re going to start doing parenting book summaries there, which is gonna be really cool, but uh, that’s some big stuff. I think we should wrap at that point, and this has been really fun. You want to do this again sometime?

[00:36:35] Tatyana Vroman: Sure.

[00:36:35] Jon Vroman: I love spending time.

[00:36:36] Tatyana Vroman: Talk about sex next time.

[00:36:38] Jon Vroman: [laughing] Drop us a line. If you want us to talk about our sex life uh, then comment, here’s, here’s my deal. We’ll do that show. If we get a couple of reviews in iTunes mentioned that say, hey, what about sex next time and we’ll dig into that show. That’d be fun. Let us know. Anyway, do you want to say anything to close this out?

[00:36:56] Tatyana Vroman: I love Jon Vroman.

[00:36:58] Jon Vroman: [laughing] I love you too, Baby. Hey guys, if you’re out there listening and you want to go even further into this information of how can we be the best husbands and fathers and family men possible, then a couple of things I want to let you know. Number one, join our Facebook group. Go to frontrowdads.com/facebook it’s an open and free group. You can jump in there and join the conversation, ask your questions, share your resources. That would be a great start. Hey, I mentioned earlier, I was kind of teasing around but really would appreciate if uh, if you are digging the show, leave us a review in iTunes, frontrowdads.com/review we’ll get you there. It means the world to us. We really appreciate it. Make sure to screenshot that. Send me an email to Jon, jon@frontrowdads.com so I can recognize you and say thank you personally, I really do value every single one of those reviews and also we are going to be opening up our membership again in November.

[00:37:46] Jon Vroman: We will only open twice a year. The last time we opened we had 30 men join our brotherhood. This November we’re going to be opening up again. We’ll probably have about a hundred spots that open up for our guys to join in and I just want to say thank you to all those guys out there who are helping get this message out to the world. Uh, our grand vision for Front Row Dads is 100,000 members in a hundred countries and we want to build the best network of high-performing entrepreneurial style men who want to be family men with businesses, not businessmen with families. So, we’re grateful that you’ve listened today. We’re grateful that you’re a part of this journey. Thanks to my gorgeous wife, Tatyana for joining. I can’t wait to do this again. This is a lot of fun and uh, hey guys, let us know what’s working for you and your families inside the Facebook group and let us know what you’d like to hear us talk about on the show next time or what type of guests do you’d like to have on or if you’ve got a suggestion for a guest, let us know that too.

[00:38:35] Jon Vroman: But that’s it for now guys. We’ll talk to you later. Bye Bye.

[00:38:39] [instrumental]

[00:38:39] Jon Vroman: Hey guys, if you haven’t already done so, go right now to frontrowdads.com/facebook and join the conversation that’s happening right now online. We designed this group for guys who are entrepreneurial in their thinking that are high performing guys with low egos. We’re looking for the dads that believe in teaching their kids how to think, solve problems and be real leaders. We’re looking for guys who believe in being family men with businesses, not businessmen with families. We’re looking for the fathers who have great knowledge but also believe that they have so much more to learn and we’re looking for men who want to add value by sharing their wisdom and those that are willing to ask the questions that we all need and want answers to. That’s frontrowdads.com/facebook or simply go to Facebook, type in Front Row Dads and you’ll get to our group and what we put in there, links to all the podcasts and videos and other resources that you can’t get access to anywhere else except for in this group. We want to give you the best ideas to help you with your marriage, balancing work and family life, communication strategies with your spouse and also your children, travel ideas and even suggestions on the latest gear that would save you time and help you be more effective. We’ve got updates on upcoming events and so much more. Go right now to frontrowdads.com/facebook and join the conversation. I’ll look forward to connecting with you there.

[00:40:01] [instrumental].
[/read]